Two 14's over 3's already in first afternoon games. Baylor and Iowa State down in flames. Makes March Madness all the more fun!
Brackets shot
- Thread starter spider fan
- Start date
Picked the GA State game. Didn't feel great about Iowa State, but had them going to final 8 - so there goes that side of my bracket. Went a little crazy on the 4-13's and have Eastern Washington over Georgetown - I feel like the Hoyas have struggled in NCAA lately.
I really liked Iowa State to go far and picked them all the way to the title game in a few brackets, but then said to myself, There's not @#&#! way Iowa State will play for a national title. Should have listened to myself.
Right call or wrong call, why is there a rule that prevents the refs from looking at a goaltending call? As we saw that was a very difficult judgement call. Seems pretty brain dead to have such an irrational rule.
What is the retort for not allowing video replay there? Game flow disruption?
What is the retort for not allowing video replay there? Game flow disruption?
EJ asked my question. The Rules Official gave an encouraging answer--basically saying that it's becoming more apparent that goaltending needs to be a reviewable call.
This post was edited on 3/19 5:57 PM by HuntsmanSpider
This post was edited on 3/19 5:57 PM by HuntsmanSpider
They review everything else, goaltending should be reviewable. Officials should be able to waive off a goaltending call when it is clear the ball has no chance to go in. Tough way to lose for SMU.
is it both "in the cylinder" and the ball is "on its way down"? seems that the rule is both for goal-tending.
Let's try this again. It was an airball. From the angle of shot it passed over the rim through the cylinder out of the back right side of the cylinder and rebounded free and clear of the cylinder on it's way down but clearly outside of the cylinder, which I understand extends to the moon. Bad call.
No, a ball bouncing upward but still in the cylinder is untouchable. (Otherwise people could sweep a ball away as soon as it hits the rim.) Anything in the cylinder is not to be messed with....
again, goal-tending is if touched in the cylinder or if hit on its way down. depending on the angle the ref was at, all he saw was the ball on its arc down and if the guy hit it or messed with it, thus he calls goal-tending. don't think the rule is that the ball has to be going in only that it has to be going down....it was
Ref who made call was 30 feet from basket near UCLA bench,2 feet from sideline.Call was not made by ref under basket or from other side of court.
"Violations- Goaltending. (Rule 9-17.5). When the ball contacts the backboard and any part of the ball is above the rim on a field goal attempt, it is considered to be on its downward flight. In such case, it is goaltending when the ball is touched by a player as long as it has a possibility of entering the basket."
"Violations- Goaltending. (Rule 9-17.5). When the ball contacts the backboard and any part of the ball is above the rim on a field goal attempt, it is considered to be on its downward flight. In such case, it is goaltending when the ball is touched by a player as long as it has a possibility of entering the basket."
Providence coach made a fool out of himself throwing a chair and getting a technical. At the end of the game he shook Archie Miller's hand but wouldn't look at him or talk to him. That part was according to my friend who was there tonight. Dayton made a ton of clutch shots and free throws at the end.
not contending it was the right call, probably was not but just saying that it was on its way down and the ref who made the call saw that, saw it was heading toward the basket and made that call. we all know they get a lot of calls wrong and there is no way to start reviewing everything, a baseball game would break out.
Like Web originally stated by the rule CORRECT call was made. As improbable as the ball would have gone through the basket, it clearly was going to hit part of the rim on it's way down. That by rule means the ball is within the cylinder. By rule meaning goaltending. Easy call to make.
Judging whether the ball will go in the basket is not a duty of the official. Judging whether the ball was going to hit the rim is. I was a referee up to the level of HS varsity. Would have made that call every time!
Possibly replay review? Yes, this instance you could say no way ball would have gone in, but how many would be tossups on WTH do we call? Simply fact was poor kid made a very bad decision, Might not see it much cause most players know it's a no-no. What I do see in games is analyst after a play like that state, good thing he didn't touch the ball, no way it was going in.
Also clarification on responsibilities. Stopped officiating back in 1995 and we did only 2 man games, but here is an excerpt from a 2005 manual for 2 officials explaining the trail official (closer to half court) is responsible for making the call and not the lead official (under the basket) even though he is closer to the rim. Another excerpt follows explaining 3 man responsibilities below the first one.
The Trail official has the responsibility of covering the backcourt and the outer part of the frontcourt. The trail should be prepared to work a wide arc dictated by ball movement. The Trail official also observes the flight of the ball on a try and calls backcourt and division-line violations. On a try or tap, the Trail official shall take at least one step toward the near end line to be in position to observe goaltending, basket interference and rebounding after the try.He/she also is responsible for giving the official signal for a three-point try, successful three-point goal, basket interference and goaltending whether allowed or disallowed. The Trail official is normally responsible for giving the five-second count when a player who is closely guarded is holding or dribbling in the frontcourt. The official who begins the five- second closely-guarded count stays with the count until it ends, a violation occurs or a foul occurs. Switch hands when going directly from one count to another.
Guidelines When Working the Trail PositionStay at 28 foot lineStay active and assist with post-play when the ball moves away from youWatch travels on the post players in L's primaryWatch goal tending and basket interferenceStep down on shots and watch reboundingAlways know where the L is because you have to step down to C when he rotates to pick up the L's old primary
https://streamable.com/2xzu
Judging whether the ball will go in the basket is not a duty of the official. Judging whether the ball was going to hit the rim is. I was a referee up to the level of HS varsity. Would have made that call every time!
Possibly replay review? Yes, this instance you could say no way ball would have gone in, but how many would be tossups on WTH do we call? Simply fact was poor kid made a very bad decision, Might not see it much cause most players know it's a no-no. What I do see in games is analyst after a play like that state, good thing he didn't touch the ball, no way it was going in.
Also clarification on responsibilities. Stopped officiating back in 1995 and we did only 2 man games, but here is an excerpt from a 2005 manual for 2 officials explaining the trail official (closer to half court) is responsible for making the call and not the lead official (under the basket) even though he is closer to the rim. Another excerpt follows explaining 3 man responsibilities below the first one.
The Trail official has the responsibility of covering the backcourt and the outer part of the frontcourt. The trail should be prepared to work a wide arc dictated by ball movement. The Trail official also observes the flight of the ball on a try and calls backcourt and division-line violations. On a try or tap, the Trail official shall take at least one step toward the near end line to be in position to observe goaltending, basket interference and rebounding after the try.He/she also is responsible for giving the official signal for a three-point try, successful three-point goal, basket interference and goaltending whether allowed or disallowed. The Trail official is normally responsible for giving the five-second count when a player who is closely guarded is holding or dribbling in the frontcourt. The official who begins the five- second closely-guarded count stays with the count until it ends, a violation occurs or a foul occurs. Switch hands when going directly from one count to another.
Guidelines When Working the Trail PositionStay at 28 foot lineStay active and assist with post-play when the ball moves away from youWatch travels on the post players in L's primaryWatch goal tending and basket interferenceStep down on shots and watch reboundingAlways know where the L is because you have to step down to C when he rotates to pick up the L's old primary
https://streamable.com/2xzu
The person with the best view of whether the ball was going to hit the rim or not was the kid rebounding the ball. You think it's definitely in the cylinder and I don't. One official, who was out of position to make the call, thought it was while the other two did not. We will never know. I still think it was a really bad call.
Whampas, so you watched that video or others and not think that ball is going to glance off the rim? Like I stated, only one ref is officially responsible for that call. Plus, as much as we get on officials here, the better ones do these games and they have "basketball common sense" realizing making that type of call you must without a doubt know (not think) what you saw.
To answer your question simply. Yes. It's a round ball and a round rim so the sweet spot for contact is pretty small when it's that close. And refs make mistakes all the time. Ask ANO. Got his face broken, no foul. Should have been flagrant 1 by today's rules.
am glad someone sees it the way i saw it, how the call was made, even if it was an old ref....HA. think this is a most difficult game to call and fans can complain about each and every game but they probably do a pretty good job each night. the key to me is that the ball certainly does not need to be going in, just on its downward arc and heading to basket. correct, the kid made the mistake, not the ref.
This post was edited on 3/21 5:54 PM by WebSpinner
This post was edited on 3/21 5:54 PM by WebSpinner
And by the way to whoever thought the SMU goaltending was wrong. Not to the people who still think after replays the ball wasn't going to touch the rim. Did anyone notice the TJ layup attempt off the backboard that had no chance whatsoever to be good? I think the official called goaltending quickly and decisively. Miami players mildly objected but not the coach. That call no doubt gets more exposure at the end of a game but only one way to properly call it.
Those were different scenarios. The shot lat night had already hit the backboard when he blocked it...that's automatic. In the SMU game, the shot hadn't hit anything. Goal tending in that circumstance requires that there be a "chance" that it goes in. Not sure whether that one had a chance, but it was a judgment call.
Billy, in college it's not automatically goaltending once the ball hits the background. It becomes goaltending once the ball is touched on it's way down toward the basket. I think in the NBA it's automatic.
How about this: if you are up three with 10 seconds to go, don't touch a three point shot near the rim.
I like that one Kneepad! LOL! Even Larry Brown who prepares a team as well as anyone, didn't see that coming.
And Billy and 2011, I like the debate here on the forum and as I get more forgetful in my age, sometimes think I missed the boat on changes happening.
From 1) NCAA rule book (difficult rule to comprehend) 2) Most Misunderstood Basketball Rules article
1) Art. 3. Goaltending.
a. Goaltending occurs when a defensive player touches the ball during a field- goal try and each of the following conditions is met: (Exceptions: Rule 10-4.1.i)
1. The ball is on its downward flight; and
2. The ball is above the level of the ring and has the possibility, while in flight, of entering the basket and is not touching the cylinder.
b. It is goaltending to touch the ball outside the cylinder during a free throw, regardless of whether the free throw is on its upward or downward flight.
c. When the ball contacts the backboard and any part of the ball is above the rim during a field goal attempt, it is considered to be on its downward flight. In such a case, it is goaltending when the ball is touched by a player as long as it has a possibility of entering the basket.
2) The backboard has nothing to do with goaltending. Goaltending is contacting the ball on its downward flight, above the level of the rim, with a chance to go in. On most layups, the ball is going up after it contacts the backboard. It is legal to pin the ball against the backboard if it still on the way up and not in the imaginary cylinder above the basket. Slapping the backboard is neither basket interference nor is it goaltending and points cannot be awarded. A player who strikes a backboard so forcefully that it cannot be ignored because it is an attempt to draw attention to the player, or a means of venting frustration, may be assessed a technical foul. When a player simply attempts to block a shot and accidentally slaps the backboard it is neither a violation nor is it a technical foul.
As behind the times I am technology wise, Google and youtube can be so helpful! Video helps my deficient writing communication skills.
This post was edited on 3/26 1:00 PM by SouthJerseySpiderFan
Goaltending and Backboard
And Billy and 2011, I like the debate here on the forum and as I get more forgetful in my age, sometimes think I missed the boat on changes happening.
From 1) NCAA rule book (difficult rule to comprehend) 2) Most Misunderstood Basketball Rules article
1) Art. 3. Goaltending.
a. Goaltending occurs when a defensive player touches the ball during a field- goal try and each of the following conditions is met: (Exceptions: Rule 10-4.1.i)
1. The ball is on its downward flight; and
2. The ball is above the level of the ring and has the possibility, while in flight, of entering the basket and is not touching the cylinder.
b. It is goaltending to touch the ball outside the cylinder during a free throw, regardless of whether the free throw is on its upward or downward flight.
c. When the ball contacts the backboard and any part of the ball is above the rim during a field goal attempt, it is considered to be on its downward flight. In such a case, it is goaltending when the ball is touched by a player as long as it has a possibility of entering the basket.
2) The backboard has nothing to do with goaltending. Goaltending is contacting the ball on its downward flight, above the level of the rim, with a chance to go in. On most layups, the ball is going up after it contacts the backboard. It is legal to pin the ball against the backboard if it still on the way up and not in the imaginary cylinder above the basket. Slapping the backboard is neither basket interference nor is it goaltending and points cannot be awarded. A player who strikes a backboard so forcefully that it cannot be ignored because it is an attempt to draw attention to the player, or a means of venting frustration, may be assessed a technical foul. When a player simply attempts to block a shot and accidentally slaps the backboard it is neither a violation nor is it a technical foul.
As behind the times I am technology wise, Google and youtube can be so helpful! Video helps my deficient writing communication skills.
This post was edited on 3/26 1:00 PM by SouthJerseySpiderFan
Goaltending and Backboard
Also with the non-call in college with ball hitting backboard and then blocked, I HATE IT! Happens so quick I have no idea watching on TV whether ball is on way up or down. Refs probably feel the same way having to determine that. Give the team 2 points and move on and there you have higher scoring in college ball.
Thanks for the clarafication. Paragraph C says a shot off the backboard is deemed to be on its downward flight (whether it actually is or not) as long as it's above the level of the rim. That was certainly the case in our game.
Similar threads
Latest posts
-
Charlotte Game (and travel) thread - Wed 11/13 7pm ESPN+
- Latest: SouthJerseySpiderFan
-
-
-
-
