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Are our players as good as Dayton's?

UR80sfan

UR80sfan

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Jan 28, 2018
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We played well below our talent level against Dayton, missed a lot of open shots and free throws and this game was not indicative of how good our teams is. We have a young team and yes I think we have the potential to be as talented as Dayton. We have 2 outstanding guards in Gilyard and Frances who might be the best in the league over the next 2 nears.

BTW, with all the negative comments, Gilyard's performance was over looked. He was 8 for 16 from 3s tying a school record. I think he will finish his career as the best point guard U of R has ever had.

Grant Golden had an off day, but has the potential to be player of the year in the A10 before he graduates. He wasn't selected 1st team A10 as a sophomore for no reason. Cunningham obviously destroyed us in the game, but I have seen Grant do the same to many other teams.

Sherod and Cayo are both very good forwards. The last half of last years A10 conference play Sherod was one of the top 10 scorers. Cayo is a very solid player and he is going to continue to improve. I have only seen Toppin play once and the dude was amazing. Did you see the video of his between the leg dunk from last week? He would never get by our admissions, but looks like he has potential to someday play in the NBA.

We have a lot of very good freshman that are playing well and have significant upside. Most freshman do not play well. It typically takes a couple years to develop. Just look at Grant Golden's red shirt year. His contribution in the games he played that year were not much better than what we are currently getting from Grace. I like Andre, Jake and Sal and think they all will be big contributors to this team.
 
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spider23 said:
How do you know this. I have been laying off the "truther" terminology lately, but you and VT4700 make definitive statements, as if you are working for the school.
Click to expand...

To be fair, Obi was an academic redshirt. It is highly unlikely.
 
I would say your ability to evaluate talent is on par with our coaching staff.
 
To answer the post - no.

Here's a few comments from Dayton's message board and other places. This is not stuff we are saying but the view in from outside from our most recent opponent:

http://udpride.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32695
  • I thought Centerville HS showed up wearing Richmond uniforms when I was watching warmups
  • Richmond reminds me of some UD teams past. Not good offensively against the zone. Forced to take some late three prayers. Lacking in passing skills to get the ball inside or simply can’t commit to it. I’ve seen this team play before. Grateful we have moved past it.









http://www.blackburnreview.com/2019/01/07/a-sunday-matinee-pink-socking/
  • Dayton achieved what they needed to on this day, get to 1-0 in the conference and dominate an opponent who was inferior to them in almost ever aspect of the game of basketball.
  • Richmond isn’t a very good basketball team, I mean, they are REALLY bad. The basement of the A-10 is going to be something to behold this season. I wouldn’t be shocked if Richmond doesn’t get above the bottom four at any point this season.
  • Dayton held Richmond’s leading scorer Grant Golden to 4 points on 2-7 shooting but that isn’t the story for the Spiders because a Richmond player had one of the funniest box scores I have ever seen. Jacob Gilyard finished with half of his teams points, 24, he was 8-17 from the field, but he was 8-16 from 3!!! Just an outrageous stat line.
 
ur2K said:
To answer the post - no.

Here's a few comments from Dayton's message board and other places. This is not stuff we are saying but the view in from outside from our most recent opponent:

http://udpride.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32695
  • I thought Centerville HS showed up wearing Richmond uniforms when I was watching warmups
  • Richmond reminds me of some UD teams past. Not good offensively against the zone. Forced to take some late three prayers. Lacking in passing skills to get the ball inside or simply can’t commit to it. I’ve seen this team play before. Grateful we have moved past it.

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http://www.blackburnreview.com/2019/01/07/a-sunday-matinee-pink-socking/
  • Dayton achieved what they needed to on this day, get to 1-0 in the conference and dominate an opponent who was inferior to them in almost ever aspect of the game of basketball.
  • Richmond isn’t a very good basketball team, I mean, they are REALLY bad. The basement of the A-10 is going to be something to behold this season. I wouldn’t be shocked if Richmond doesn’t get above the bottom four at any point this season.
  • Dayton held Richmond’s leading scorer Grant Golden to 4 points on 2-7 shooting but that isn’t the story for the Spiders because a Richmond player had one of the funniest box scores I have ever seen. Jacob Gilyard finished with half of his teams points, 24, he was 8-17 from the field, but he was 8-16 from 3!!! Just an outrageous stat line.
Click to expand...

Damn. The 'handful of posters on our board' that recognize our roster as a glorified Patriot League squad have now infiltrated the Dayton board and social media too.
 
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Thanks for posting that 2K. Dayton has an extremely active fan base on social media and while I was not surprised by their comments because I said at the conclusion of the Longwood game that Longwood had more talent than we do. So maybe hearing some outside perspectives on our squad will finally help to sink in the reality as to the talent in our program. There is a reason we were ranking 10th in preseason, down in the same quandrant with Fordham and LaSalle.
 
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I always find Dayton's fanbase to be one of the most knowledgeable of all the ones we play in the a10. Those folks know and love college basketball - there's a reason why the NCAA hosts the first round games there.
 
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I think Gilyard could start for a number of P6 schools.

I think Golden is a very good offensive player with even more upside if he becomes more consistent with his jump shot, and a very, very bad defensive player. I don't know whether to attribute the defensive part to coaching or instincts or both, but he's awful, and he's not held accountable to be anything more than awful.

I think Sherod is a really good scorer who hasn't yet displayed the killer instinct to really take over games -- and that's OK because he really is just now an upperclassman.

I think Wojcik has a lot of promise, is a smart, instinctual player who already does a lot of things well. He's above my expectations for a freshman, frankly.

Cayo is a good rotational player that I think fits at the A-10 level.

Julius is pretty useless 80% of the time. Yates has his moments, but is too inconsistent shooting for my taste. But he's far and away the most useful grad transfer we've had, and can provide a useful 8 minutes a game.

The rest, including Francis, I can't really tell yet.

The sum total of them I have hopes can be good, but fear that won't ever become greater than the sum of their parts under the current staff, mostly because of a lack of attention to the fundamental aspects of defense: staying in front of your guy, helping on others, and rotating properly.

So, to answer the question, no -- I'd rather have Toppin, Cunningham, Crutcher, Davis, Mikesell, and Landers.

Swap Gilyard for Davis and I'm all in.
 
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Good honest evaluation KneePad. We have some players that all of us agree are quite good. Problem again is that we just cannot build solid depth, and especially on the interior.
And I hate, hate, hate all the excuses made about Mooney recruiting with one hand behind his back. How the hell was he able to recruit the 2009-2010 roster (when he was young and hungry - that's how).
Depth.
Interior - You had Geriot and Harper, backed up by Garrett and Duinker on the interior.
Wings - Butler, with Kevin Smith, AND Martel
(not too mention K Hovde who actually scored 25 in a game as a 4th option)
Guards - a little lighter but you had KA and Gonzo who could play 35 min/game, with a FR Brothers and Butler and K Smith could fill in.

That is a damn solid roster that I give Mooney all the credit for recruiting in a pre 10 year contract mode. He has shown absolutely no ability to build such quality depth since 2011.
 
UR80sfan said:
We played well below our talent level against Dayton, missed a lot of open shots and free throws and this game was not indicative of how good our teams is. We have a young team and yes I think we have the potential to be as talented as Dayton. We have 2 outstanding guards in Gilyard and Frances who might be the best in the league over the next 2 nears.

BTW, with all the negative comments, Gilyard's performance was over looked. He was 8 for 16 from 3s tying a school record. I think he will finish his career as the best point guard U of R has ever had.

Grant Golden had an off day, but has the potential to be player of the year in the A10 before he graduates. He wasn't selected 1st team A10 as a sophomore for no reason. Cunningham obviously destroyed us in the game, but I have seen Grant do the same to many other teams.

Sherod and Cayo are both very good forwards. The last half of last years A10 conference play Sherod was one of the top 10 scorers. Cayo is a very solid player and he is going to continue to improve. I have only seen Toppin play once and the dude was amazing. Did you see the video of his between the leg dunk from last week? He would never get by our admissions, but looks like he has potential to someday play in the NBA.

We have a lot of very good freshman that are playing well and have significant upside. Most freshman do not play well. It typically takes a couple years to develop. Just look at Grant Golden's red shirt year. His contribution in the games he played that year were not much better than what we are currently getting from Grace. I like Andre, Jake and Sal and think they all will be big contributors to this team.
Click to expand...

If the players are as good as you say they are then the problem is obvious, right?
 
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UR80sfan said:
We played well below our talent level against Dayton, missed a lot of open shots and free throws and this game was not indicative of how good our teams is.
Click to expand...

We missed some offensive opportunities, but on balance we played to who we are and how we are coached. Until proven differently, I will disagree with you on your opening statement.
 
SpiderGuy said:
We missed some offensive opportunities, but on balance we played to who we are and how we are coached. Until proven differently, I will disagree with you on your opening statement.
Click to expand...
if you're right that out team against Dayton is who we are, then we won't win another game.
14% from the line?
29% from 2?
I hope we're better than that.
 
Dayton was the best team we have played so far this year, according to every available metric and ranking system. The result of the game was, therefore, not surprising. We played a bunch of garbage OOC and still had a losing record.

Mooney was glowing on his radio show last night talking about how effectively we ran the offense at South Alabama. . . I mean come the F on. IT WAS SOUTH ALABAMA FOR GOD'S SAKE. He was talking about that game as if to say "See, we just had a bad game against Dayton -- look how great we looked against this [totally similar!] opponent."

When, of course, in reality, they are nothing alike. Dayton is a real team and South Alabama is terrible like us. It is frankly disgusting the way he is attempting to fool everyone into believing we are close or things aren't that bad. No, we are not close at all. And yes, things really are bad.
 
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Eight Legger said:
Dayton was the best team we have played so far this year, according to every available metric and ranking system. The result of the game was, therefore, not surprising. We played a bunch of garbage OOC and still had a losing record.

Mooney was glowing on his radio show last night talking about how effectively we ran the offense at South Alabama. . . I mean come the F on. IT WAS SOUTH ALABAMA FOR GOD'S SAKE. He was talking about that game as if to say "See, we just had a bad game against Dayton -- look how great we looked against this [totally similar!] opponent."

When, of course, in reality, they are nothing alike. Dayton is a real team and South Alabama is terrible like us. It is frankly disgusting the way he is attempting to fool everyone into believing we are close or things aren't that bad. No, we are not close at all. And yes, things really are bad.
Click to expand...
We haven't beaten anything above a Quadrant 4 team thus far (and have lost to several Quadrant 4 teams) as well. So, yes, we tend to look competitive against other Quadrant 4 teams, like South Alabama. Dayton is not even that great of a team, they are probably at best a Top 75 team and they completely dismantled us and made us look like a DIII squad going up against their athletes. .
 
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97spiderfan said:
We haven't beaten anything above a Quadrant 4 team thus far (and have lost to several Quadrant 4 teams) as well. So, yes, we tend to look competitive against other Quadrant 4 teams, like South Alabama. Dayton is not even that great of a team, they are probably at best a Top 75 team and they completely dismantled us and made us look like a DIII squad going up against their athletes. .
Click to expand...
Yesterday’s NET
https://mobile.twitter.com/A10Talk/status/1082652898067140610
 
I also think some confuse freshman production with something more meaningful. Our young guys get time and stats because our roster stinks. I’m guessing that there are plenty of players in the A10 who, if given time, would put up numbers that on paper also look decent, and who, by seniors, will amount to better players than what we have.
 
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ur2K said:
I always find Dayton's fanbase to be one of the most knowledgeable of all the ones we play in the a10. Those folks know and love college basketball - there's a reason why the NCAA hosts the first round games there.
Click to expand...

Compared to VCU They're night and day. Dayton have good fans. Knowledgeable fans. VCU has ditch salmon.
 
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Let's assume for the moment (a really big assumption) that the Dayton players and our players are roughly equal in talent and potential. What is the remaining difference?

All I can say is that CM has NEVER beaten an Anthony Grant coached team, and I don't expect that to EVER change.

The Dayton fans commentary is yet another example of the real world outside our campus saying how terrible our team and program are. The truthers continue to close their eyes, stick their fingers in their ears, and yell "Lalalalalala!".


#NoMoreMooneyTruthing
 
wr70beh said:
Compared to VCU They're night and day. Dayton have good fans. Knowledgeable fans. VCU has ditch salmon.
Click to expand...
I've never heard the term "ditch salmon", I don't know what it means, but it seems to fit VCU fans like a pair of skinny jeans all to well.
 
keefusb said:
Let's assume for the moment (a really big assumption) that the Dayton players and our players are roughly equal in talent and potential. What is the remaining difference?

All I can say is that CM has NEVER beaten an Anthony Grant coached team, and I don't expect that to EVER change.

The Dayton fans commentary is yet another example of the real world outside our campus saying how terrible our team and program are. The truthers continue to close their eyes, stick their fingers in their ears, and yell "Lalalalalala!".


#NoMoreMooneyTruthing
Click to expand...

Who are the Truthers? For real, who are they at this point? VT4700? Anyone else?
 
97spiderfan said:
Ulla, UR80's, S-man on here. And then probably the 6 rows that sit behind the bench in Section 5. The Butler family, Conor Smith's of the world. I think there are probably a handful of donors and faculty that are probably in those boat as well.

I think that may be it. It's gotta be a small and dying group at this point.
Click to expand...
I feel like there is one in the Butler family that is waning. The one that had 800 points and 500 rebounds in two years.
 
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