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Affordable Care Act New Sign-up Claims are a Fraud

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StonesRiverSpid

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Jan 1, 2013
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I want to follow-up on the an issue I mentioned in another thread- that the Obama administration claims that 2.2 million people have signed up for the Obamacare exchanges as of November 30. This is false, because the computer systems designed to accept payments have not been developed. If you do not make a payment, how can you have insurance? These systems take years to develop. They won't tell us how many people have actually enrolled and paid (which can be obtained from the insurance companies) because they do not bad information getting out.

People can't pay for their health insurance
 
Stones, does this number include those signing up for medicaid or just private insurance? if it includes medicaid, how many of the 2.2 million are for that piece as opposed to "paid" insurance. am not a pile on guy, love our government, but, what is wrong with this picture and why can't something be done to just say, this is plain stupid, let's cut our losses. realize that any new endeavor is going to have some bugs, need some fine tuning, etc. but this is like opening a new restaurant and not having a working kitchen or no electricity, just the basics. why would any sane person(s) allow this program to be unveiled in this condition? this is so like $2000 toilets and $500 hammers that our feds are famous for over the years but it is not funny, it is OUR money and healthcare is our private business and it is being taken over by idiots.
 
one of our senators here in texas, ted cruz, was crucified in the national press, o tv, radio, wherever they could shout from the hill tops because he wanted the individual piece of this legislation to be delayed just as the employer part is being delayed. it seems to me that he was right on the money and all of those calling him extreme and out of touch owe him an apology. this should most certainly have been delayed, it is not ready, still, it has cost 2 or 3 times its initial budget and is just a complete farce. someone or someones butts should be shown the door for rolling this thing out while still a work in progress, you just do not do that, like selling cars with no engines or ovens with no heating element inside, just one of the most ignorant decisions ever.
 
Originally posted by WebSpinner:
Stones, does this number include those signing up for medicaid or just private insurance? if it includes medicaid, .
Click to expand...
The Medicaid figures the government has been claiming are also a fraud. Obama claim that more 6 million people have signed up for Medicaid. In fact, at least 4 million of this number were already on Medicaid, but were reenrolling for the next year. The 2 million (assuming this number is correct) referenced in this article applies to state Medicaid enrollment expansion. The federal government made states expand their Medicaid and will pay for the expansion for three years. This is not a good thing.


Another falsehood
 
OK, over 6 million signed up, it is a success. example: my son who was paying his own premium and a plan he liked but his premium went up almost 4X what he paid last year so he went to the market and bought one but now others, taxpayers are helping him pay his premium and he has a $6,000 deductible, will not pay for any of his normal medical bills. this is what everyone is jumping up and down about as being a great deal. what kind of lesson does this teach young people?
sick0021.r191677.gif

This post was edited on 3/31 11:50 AM by WebSpinner
 
There is no oversight for the insurance companies. They are going to be rolling in the dough, with never before realized premiums to bankroll their roadblocks to paying benefits. Anthem tried to stick me with a transition policy costing $400 more per month than what I am paying. Spent a good deal of the day yesterday on phone and internet to change coverage. It have proof they received app and payment info but am unable to find it when I log on. Spoke to an Anthem call center in Texas manned by young temps and answers to my questions was not all quite accurate. Oh, that call center is closing today. I wish nothing but lifelong dysentery for all health insurance executives and decision/policy makers. And why am I being charged for a pediatric dental policy when I have no minor kids? Now I know, because that indicted former governor was too busy with pushing a consciousness clause for adoption agencies against gay couples adopting children as he was consciously accepting a check et al for he and his family, when, he should have been setting up a state exchange. May he join the health insurance executives.

This post was edited on 4/1 7:12 PM by Anachnoid
 
why would you be dealing with an insurance company instead of the "marketplace", not sure what you are talking about. the insurance companies are history and now you will be dealing with people like lois learner, the arrogant IRS doll who could give a rip about any problem you have personally, plus could determine if you live or die, great future. was once charged, by mistake, for carburetor cleaner for my fuel injected engine, things like that happen and is not life or death. you sound like the most unhappy and most bitter person in the world and that is really sad. good luck with your new life in government healthcare and healthcare insurance, if you think you are mad and unhappy now, just wait buddy.
 
Riddle me this. If the insurance companies are collecting more $$ due to more insureds and in addition are being subsidized with government money, why are my premiums (and your son's) increasing? Where is the money going? Has there been a great increase in the necessity of medical services by all Americans?
 
well, if the insurance companies are paying claims, the money, at least a part of it, will be going to them. now there is another third party involved, making it even more expensive. in the end, it will be just the government and the providers and the people and that is not going to make it better, it will be worse, much worse. now that people can get sick and then sign up, yes it is going to be much more expensive, like calling an agent when your house is burning and wanting to buy home insurance, not prudent, smart or right but it is the way some have chosen to treat us and we have to live with it. don't worry about myself, only my kids and grand kids....
 
Just as I expected, Bulverism.
You certainly make a good argument for socialized medicine. We live in a great country of opportunity, why shouldn't medical care be available for all?
Perhaps a tax or incentive could be lifestyled based, but then do you not offer care to the healthy middle aged person that is stricken with ALS or MS?
 
this may be a stupid question, but isn't medical care available to everyone now? There are level 1 trauma centers (MCV) that take on big cases and usually a lot of indigent care, suburban hospitals that struggle with uninsured people going to the ER with a cold, rural hospitals that are small, all the way down to critical access hospitals in the most remote locations that get reimbursed at 101% of the allowable amount. Doctor's take the Hippocratic oath promising to practice medicine ethically including to treat everyone regardless of circumstance. The question is not do people have access to care. The question is how is this care paid for. Obamacare is structured to make everyone pay something but ultimately to make those that can pay more. It relies on young, healthy people to subsidize older patients that will need more care. I view it as being set up similar to Social Security - the young pay for the old and then, supposedly, it comes back around to you. The problem with Obamacare is that no one asked for it, it is unbelievably expensive, and it forces people to rely on the government. Therein lies the evil that Spinner references. There is a fundamental difference of opinion between conservatives and liberals on how best to handle problems. The Obama's of the world want the government to take care of everything. This creates a cycle of dependence and, in my opinion, creates and grows the difference between the haves and have nots. The most cynical among us feel that is the real objective - to create a country where everyone depends on the government and there are no haves. Personally, I don't think Obamacare was ever really created to succeed. I think they all suspected it wouldn't work but represented a step towards nationalized medicine like Canada. We shall see, but so far this is a hot mess and I have absolutely no faith that anyone in the white house or DC is competent enough to fix it.
 
Originally posted by Anachnoid:
There is no oversight for the insurance companies. They are going to be rolling in the dough, with never before realized premiums to bankroll their roadblocks to paying benefits. Anthem tried to stick me with a transition policy costing $400 more per month than what I am paying. Spent a good deal of the day yesterday on phone and internet to change coverage. It have proof they received app and payment info but am unable to find it when I log on. Spoke to an Anthem call center in Texas manned by young temps and answers to my questions was not all quite accurate. Oh, that call center is closing today. I wish nothing but lifelong dysentery for all health insurance executives and decision/policy makers. And why am I being charged for a pediatric dental policy when I have no minor kids? Now I know, because that indicted former governor was too busy with pushing a consciousness clause for adoption agencies against gay couples adopting children as he was consciously accepting a check et al for he and his family, when, he should have been setting up a state exchange. May he join the health insurance executives.

This post was edited on 4/1 7:12 PM by Anachnoid
Click to expand...
Noid, i don't know anything about your personal insurance situation and don't care to learn more but believe Medical Loss Ratio has reigned in the insurance carrier excesses that you seem to be describing.

It also probably explains who you are routed to a call center in Texas. The Insurance companies need to make money for their shareholders just like any other business. They are already regulated on the amount of money that they can make on policies.

Medical Loss Ratio
 
it seems socialism makes everyone miserable intstead of just a small %, except for the elite, of course, which will be the government types. why not just take care of the small % who wanted insurance but could not afford it (the majority who did not have insurance were young ones who just did not want it) and leave the other 95% alone and happy. this will make all of us unhappy. not sure that is wise thinking or how to do it but it was shoved down our throats and we have to live with it, ain't government great when it forces us to do things that a few elites think is best for you and me.
 
Pike you are correct-not a question of access but who pays. It was that all the insured paid for keeping the facilities open for those who used and did not pay. Isn't the theory now that since the pool of insureds just get deeper that the cost gets better apportioned? In Spids article these is reference to the phenomenal increase in premium costs from 2000 to 2006 or later. There was no ACA during that time. Does anyone really believe the insurance companies are going to lose money . M even in the UHC article the insurance companies are allowed a possible 15 -20% profit per year. Health insurance execs look to have a pretty good gig.

Really?
 
Anach, you act like the insurance companies should lose money and that is not how things work in your family, my family and should not work with any entity, including our government. the estimate is that 30 million will remain uninsured when the dust settles on this deal, so what have we accomplished? we have made a few, very few, people happy because the government is now in charge instead of some evil corporations, that is about the size of it. now we have something that cannot ever, ever, go away, we are stuck with it, whether it works or not or whether it helps or not or whether it is any good or not. this is the exact thing we should never have wanted, yet we got it forced on us and in a time where we just cannot afford it, we are drowning in debt both funded and unfunded. you won, you got your way and sleep well at night......know you will

This post was edited on 4/3 7:26 AM by WebSpinner
 
Making insurance companies not for profit would be a good step in my opinion. It just seems counterintuitive to have a company whose sole motive is profit and shareholder returns to be in charge of what type of health care you do or don't receive.

The reasons rates have skyrocketed is because for profit insurance companies have responded to the fact that they can no longer kick people who get sick out of their plan and having to offer an array of preventative services, which should in the long term drive down health care costs, by jacking up the premium costs and increasing deductables.
 
preventive in insurance policies have been in place since before the 90s (in fact, most of them waived any deductibles and they were first dollar unlike my son's new obamacare policy which has a $6,000 deductile with no chance of having any preventive paid for, covered, yes, but no reimbursement), no news there. most blue cross plans are non-profit but they still earn a surplus when they have good years. when you look to earn a profit/surplus, you are motivated to work lean, smart and make quick adjustments when things are not working, that is good and keeps things going smoothly. when you are the government and don't care, that is a recipe for a financial disaster, look at any program they are running, either broke, bleeding money and in terrible shape. they all need to be changed, put on a better financial footing BUT, you cannot touch any of those programs without people, politicians, etc. crying and wailing so it never gets fixed or put on a proper financial platform. if you think this is going to be better, not sure if you ever took a business course or have ever looked at how the government is run.

This post was edited on 4/3 9:46 PM by WebSpinner
 
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