2 for 1

[Spiders05]

We're up 1 with the ball, with 50+ seconds on the clock. SDJ walks the ball up and hangs out just on the other side of half-court. Why are we not pushing the ball for a 2 for 1 opportunity? This is something I've wondered about for a few years. We just don't ever seem to have urgency when we could to get an extra opportunity at the last shot.

Anyone able to enlighten me?

 

[coachfezz]

Yes I was thinking of this also

 

[SouthJerseySpiderFan]

Didn't watch the game but when your AHEAD at that point in the game no need to rush. UR wants to gets the best opportunity to score a basket no matter how much time comes off the clock. If you make basket up 3 so can't lose on one play and might not need more FGA from the field.

Say UR hurries up and misses shot and other team has more time and scores and goes up one. Now you have that second opportunity to score but now down one. If UR hurries and makes it a 3 point lead great but still more time left for opponent to come back and win. If UR was losing trying the 2 for 1 is a good idea depending on how much behind but when winning, no need to extend the game.

 

[Spiderbymarriage]

Originally posted by SouthJerseySpiderFan:
Didn't watch the game but when your AHEAD at that point in the game no need to rush. UR wants to gets the best opportunity to score a basket no matter how much time comes off the clock. If you make basket up 3 so can't lose on one play and might not need more FGA from the field.

Say UR hurries up and misses shot and other team has more time and scores and goes up one. Now you have that second opportunity to score but now down one. If UR hurries and makes it a 3 point lead great but still more time left for opponent to come back and win. If UR was losing trying the 2 for 1 is a good idea depending on how much behind but when winning, no need to extend the game.

And if you don't make a basket you're up 1 with the other team taking the last shot.

If you accelerate the possession, as the OP suggested, the alternatives are up 3 with each team likely getting one more possession or up 1 with each team likely getting one more possession. I like those options better.

Of course you don't want to rush and take a bad shot with 45 seconds left just to get another possession -- so I think the strategy is hustle the ball up the court and try to get a quick score, but work the offense if it's not there.

 

[spider23]

I understand the strategy, and it is sound strategy, but with this team I think you just work for the best shot available, at whatever point in the shot clock that may be. With the 2 for 1 strategy I think there is too much temptation/chance that you are going to force a bad shot vs. get a good shot very early in the possession.

 

[Spiders05]

We weren't working to get a good shot in this case. We were just over the half-court line milking the clock. If we were actively looking for a good shot, I would understand it more. In last night's case, I don't at all.

 

[Eight Legger]

The problem is that our offense is not conducive to getting good, quick looks. And I suspect Mooney, being the defensive guy that he is, would rather take his chances playing defense on the final possession while protecting a lead. However, last night our "excellent" defense allowed 70+ points to Fordham, so I'm not sure how solid a theory that is.

 

[97spiderfan]

I don't like the strategy to milk the clock. That has backfired on us several times. We have 2 extremely competent guards, rarely turn the ball the over, and are a good FT shooting team, so continuing to run the offense seems like it would be a higher percentage play for us vs. taking the air out of the ball.

Of course, last night we milked it and SDJ nailed a 3, which ended up being the dagger, so it worked pretty well last night., But in general, I am not a fan of the strategy.

 

[NewURfan]

Simply put these guy are not pro's there college players. Scoring is not automatic or let's say less provable then professionals players. Scoring in college for a single important possession is not guaranteed so the 2 for 1 concept is not a good strategy. In college you execute then take the best available shot opportunity whether it's early or later in shot clock. That is another reason college has more time to score it's difficult.

 

[SpiderTrap]

99% of the time I would go for the 2 for 1, for reasons already discussed (make - your up 3...miss it - you give yourself a chance at getting the last shot if the other team scores).

BUT - the problem with our team is we don't have anyone other than Anthony coming off a ball screen to produce a quality quick shot. If Anthony was bigger - then it would be easy, run him off a screen and let him create or pull up for a jumper - I like that shot. But given his size, that pull up jumper off the screen is not always open because you don't have to be close to him to contest. And - he really has no one else to kick it to when defenses collapse. Would you like Anthony to drive and kick out to anyone last night not named ShawnDre for a 3? I don't think so.

Normally - you go 2 for 1 in that situation. But we are not normal this year.

 

[97spiderfan]

I think you run your normal offense. If an opportunity presents itself for an early shot, so you can take a 2:1 than take it, but if it is not there, just run the offense. By milking the clock though, you are taking any opportunity for a 2:1 off the table and also limiting your chances to find a good shot in our offense.

I think CM's thought process is put the ball in Kendall's hand in these situation and tell him to take it to the hole, where he most likely will get fouled.

 

[whampas]

The 2 for 1 scenario discussed above assumes clean play to the end of the game. As soon as you introduce turnovers and fouls, it throws the sequenceoff. II'd rather play it out within the confines of the offense rather than force it up because of the clock, especially with a lead.

 

[Stonewall D]

IMHO, you would want the ball in the hands of our best shooters. In the scenario outline above, if UR has a fresh 35 on the shot clock, it can hold the ball and force the other team to foul to stop the clock. I would expect Fordham to consider fouling quickly. If UR is up 1 point, and the other team fouls, who do you want on the line? I would take SDJ, KA0 or Terry Allen. The other team's goal is to extend the game as long as possible. UR knew that and was daring Fordham to foul SDJ.

 

[Eight Legger]

The other problem with forcing a 2-for-1 is that suppose we miss our shot, the other team gets the ball and misses its shot. Odds are decent it will get the offensive rebound -- especially last night, when we gave up 12 of them. So now they get to take the last shot and you are relying on your defense to win the game anyway.

 

[WebSpinner]

just imagine if any of us were a real coach, dozens of things appearing upon which to make decisions, no time to really think that much, you must act, not really as easy as it is on here plus no consequences on here either. just saying...

 

[Eight Legger]

Very true. Although if we were coaches being paid only to coach basketball, I imagine we'd have plenty of time to figure out what strategies we would want to use in certain situations, so it would be second nature to make those calls when the time came.

 

[SpiderK]

Eight I am sure that's what they have done when they foul the opposing team when we are up 3. Just always scares me a ref will say the guy is shooting when we foul. Fordham turned it against us last night by missing the last free throw on purpose because we CANNOT rebound and they got off a beautiful shot with 1 second left. We got lucky!!

 

[Eight Legger]

No doubt. That seemed like a very well-rehearsed play by Fordham and our guys were not ready for it at all. I was sure that shot was going in.

 

[ThePhysician]

Watch the replay , Hands were on the knees when the shot went up, that's coaching and player lack of court sense

 

[whampas]

^^ Maybe so but it was a lucky bounce. At best one chance out of ten he could do it again.

 

[SouthJerseySpiderFan]

Lots of discussion with this and sounds like SDJ had no thoughts of setting up the offense to try to score early. Like I said I didn't view it. Some coaches would wait and others want the 2 for 1. Biggest aspect for me taking my time is being ahead. Not thinking negative like we might need another FGA. We know SDJ this time made the 3 to be up 4 but some other scenarios to look at from last night .....

a) UR scores quickly and go up 3 with 40 seconds left
b) UR scores and go up 3 with 25 seconds left
c) UR no score Ford gets ball with 40 seconds left down 1
d) UR no score and Ford gets ball with 25 seconds left down 1

Fordham either goes for a quick 2 PT FG or CM tells team to foul so no 3PTA
a) F gets 2 points one of the above ways and down 1 with say 25-30 seconds left Ford wants this
b) F gets 2 points " " " " down 1 with say 10-15 seconds left UR wants this
c) F scores scores with 10-15 seconds left to go up 1 but UR gets one last possession
d) F scores at the buzzer to win game*

*Differing opinions here but if I was coach and behind, almost always would try to attempt a shot with enough time left to get the offensive rebound and put back or if early enough a missed shot, you foul and UR in 1 and 1 and possibly down at worst 3 for possibly another last second shot.

Both options are viable but I prefer in that situation to shorten the game as much as possible.

 

[SpiderK]

Whampas. Many of our guy's have that bounce on every free throw!

 

[WebSpinner]

offensive rebound for us, what are you smoking?

 

[ThePhysician]

If we had hands up during the free throw they wouldn't have had a shot

 

[NewURfan]

That last play was a designed miss I'm sure both coaches prepared for it..our team knew it was coming but didn't know the bounce it got or when..you can't teach the throw to be perfect and the bounce directly to your teammates... the reason the rams caught us off guard was solely on the instincts of free throw shooter. That probably comes from playing at the playground coming up with buddies playing countless games of 21 or some say roughhouse. There is plenty times back in the days I have scored went to line and soon as I got passed the line quickly threw ball up against backboard to get it back before everyone was set or prepared... it's luck

 

[SpiderK]

Certainly some luck involved. I would call it calculated luck combined with our ineptness in rebounding.