ADVERTISEMENT

VCU GAME

spider23

spider23

Spider's Club
May 31, 2002
16,741
12,106
113
Dedmon Center USA
ruhoops.proboards.com
Well, well, well .....well.

Here we are again, as usual a HUGE game, this season huge seems especially huge. Last year we split, with VCU winning first game by wide margin, and Spiders taking 2nd by wide margin. Crowd won't be an issue this year.

1) Rhoades vs Mooney. Rhoades is not a super x and o's guy, but then again neither is Mooney if he has to make any adjustments.
2) BONES vs FRANCIS. This is the key match up in my book. Last year in Game 1, Francis was out with injury and Bones had his way shooting 5 for 6 from 3. Game two with Francis sticking him, he made ONE SHOT. Great match up. Will bones and our friendly VCU board guest have their way, or Will Blake Franchise win the day. Key match up.
3) Spiders shooting. Gilyard and Francis, have not been super this year, but both looked automatic yesterday. Was this just due to extreme comfort against an over matched opponent, or will that carry through to Wed night?
4) Golden - curious to see what he comes with, I believe he had 0 last night, not much impact at all. Last game vs VCU he had his way with Marcus (my heart is in Texas Tech) Santos-Silva. Need the big guy to show up. Hopefully he is looking to have a big impact.
5) Sal/Grace - Need some big and tough minutes from them, D and boards. And yes, let's hope Grace can give us two 3's.
6) Burton needs to be Burton, stay out of foul trouble and help even a little extra on the boards.

Seems like a lot is riding on this one, especially with no guarantees with future games on the schedule this season.

Richmond 68 VCU 66. I think our team plays best game of the season, but VCU makes it close at the end.
 
  • Like
Reactions: plydogg, SpiderGuy and 97spiderfan
Anyone else notice that Burton seemed to be the one that needed to shake off the rust the most? Big difference between St Joe's and first half yesterday.
Glad he seemed to be improving throughout the game.

Goose looked healthy.
And Cayo found his inside shot, Gilly his outside shot. Let's hope that continues...
 
Good summary 23. My hope is our guys not are rusty but instead mad that they've been shut down 3 times now during the season that they have been building towards for 4 years. Hopefully, they play angry and with purpose. If they do, we win, because we are more talented.

If instead we come out and play Mooney's typically passive game flow management sh*t, well then it could be a long night. If Mooney ever has a fired up speech to give, it would be 5 minutes before we take the floor. I think our guys would respond to that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: spider23
The Ramlets are going to have to tie their shoelaces tight.
richmond.com

VCU preparing to take on formidable challenge of Richmond offense

"They do what they do and they do it very well."
richmond.com richmond.com

"They're very good. They're older. They do what they do and they do it very well,” Rhoades said. “And I think, offensively, they're very efficient and they do such a great job of playing the right way together because they're been around each other for a long time. They know each other's strengths. They want each other to have the ball.”

All five Richmond starters average double-figure points, led by Blake Francis’ 16.6 per game.
 
  • Like
Reactions: fatherspider and plydogg
GKiller said:
Some may not like seeing this Gilyard quote...

"Just to have them there, to get that experience, it’s something that I wish I had my LAST year.”
Click to expand...
I'm confused, how does he know he won't have it his LAST year ;)
 
I may be building this game up too much, but I feel this could be the defining moment of the Mooney era.

Win and all is well, go to NCAA's pick up a solid big man for next year, Cayo comes back, and Mooney has his mojo back and the Athletic does a new billboard story and Spider basketball is riding high.

Lose, and it is excuse mode like last 8 years - injuries, academic restrictions, bad luck, global pandemic, etc etc.

So much riding on this game, I cannot wait!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Eight Legger
spider23 said:
I may be building this game up too much, but I feel this could be the defining moment of the Mooney era.

Win and all is well, go to NCAA's pick up a solid big man for next year, Cayo comes back, and Mooney has his mojo back and the Athletic does a new billboard story and Spider basketball is riding high.

Lose, and it is excuse mode like last 8 years - injuries, academic restrictions, bad luck, global pandemic, etc etc.

So much riding on this game, I cannot wait!
Click to expand...
Ya I have the same feeling about this game. However we all know that if UR doesn’t get it done that there won’t be any kind of change at the end of the season. The administration will probably say use the pandemic excuse and say “Mooney did a masterful job navigating such a difficult season”.
 
spider23 said:
I may be building this game up too much, but I feel this could be the defining moment of the Mooney era.

Win and all is well, go to NCAA's pick up a solid big man for next year, Cayo comes back, and Mooney has his mojo back and the Athletic does a new billboard story and Spider basketball is riding high.

Lose, and it is excuse mode like last 8 years - injuries, academic restrictions, bad luck, global pandemic, etc etc.

So much riding on this game, I cannot wait!
Click to expand...

It's a big game but there would still be a LOT to validate if we get the W. But it does at least put us in a better position to get it done. Lose and and it's the risky win the A10 tourney hoping it even gets completed.

A must win for sure because we've underachieved and we r in a position of weakness not strength for NCAA. Lose here and we fall down the bracketology boards. Of course there is the 7-19 too. You just can't go to 7-20 vs VCU in this spot with the preseason A10 favorite. I mean this would probably be the worst coaching season in Mooney tenure if he can't get this team to NCAAs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SpiderGuy
Eight Legger said:
Noticed that too. Not surprising, but still a bit depressing.
Click to expand...

If any of our guys choose to stay that is great, but honestly, I hope they all graduate. If they stay that really messes up our younger guys development even further and probably creates more problems than it solves down the road.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SpiderDad75
Correct me if I’m wrong but for some reason when Mooney was retained at the end of the 2019 season I remember something about a 2 year window to get it right. I guess that’s changed since Mooney got another extension.
 
Basically a must win for both sides really. Both UR and VCU are on the bubble and in the mix for tourney bids and a win by either side helps your resume and puts the other behind the 8 ball.

This game, as usual when we play VCU - will come down to our guards being able to handle the pressure and play nearly 40 minutes. For VCU - they will look to wear us down, likely drive the ball and get guys in foul trouble - knowing we have no bench. If our starters have good games and can all play 32+ minutes - I like our chances to pull out a win. If we get into some foul trouble or fatigue sets in and we start missing shots and turning the ball over - we are in trouble.

X-Factor of the game - Grant. Without Silva down low anymore, Grant should have a good game. And we need him to have a good game to take some pressure off Francis and Gil.
 
  • Like
Reactions: urfan1 and Ferrum Spider
712_VT said:
Correct me if I’m wrong but for some reason when Mooney was retained at the end of the 2019 season I remember something about a 2 year window to get it right. I guess that’s changed since Mooney got another extension.
Click to expand...

I truly understand why a lot of people are frustrated with Mooney. And again, I am no great Mooney supporter, but yet again I find myself defending him . This is SOOOOOO STUPID! What EXACTLY has he not gotten right since the end of 2019? A loss to La Salle and Hofstra? One to Radford last year? Ok. In the timeframe that you specifically mention, in the first year, the team went 24-7 and had one of the best regular seasons in Richmond history, and the only reason we didn't play in the tournament was because of a once in a century pandemic.

This year, we are 10-4 against D-1 competition and are squarely on the bubble, with our fate in our own hands.

What did he not get right since 2019? If and when we are excluded from this year's tournament, then have at it. But if we do make the tournament, that means that since the extension and in his "2 year window to get it right", he will have made it to every Final Four (Tournament) that has been held, and would have made the other one had it been held.

If that's getting it "wrong" I don't want to be right.
 
Kneepad, I can see your point...BUT Mooney does not have some big coffer of NCAA appearances built up the last 8 years to fall back on..so many on this board have him on a short leash. I would be more inclined to be bullish on Mooney again if he didn't recruit a big man to replace Grant - with apparently a low motivation to succeed at this level and subsequently bailed, and strike out on all his other legit big men recruits that we were listed in final 5 (Schiefellin, Larson, THompson, Hicks). Some damn many excuses why we can't land a guy, but when you are in the final 5 for those type of players your really really need to land at least one. THat's my issue, if he had landed THompson and Schiefellin, I would be with Galli and say future is bright. But right now there is no clear path to being at top of A10 next couple years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SpiderGuy
kneepadmckinney said:
I truly understand why a lot of people are frustrated with Mooney. And again, I am no great Mooney supporter, but yet again I find myself defending him . This is SOOOOOO STUPID! What EXACTLY has he not gotten right since the end of 2019? A loss to La Salle and Hofstra? One to Radford last year? Ok. In the timeframe that you specifically mention, in the first year, the team went 24-7 and had one of the best regular seasons in Richmond history, and the only reason we didn't play in the tournament was because of a once in a century pandemic.

This year, we are 10-4 against D-1 competition and are squarely on the bubble, with our fate in our own hands.

What did he not get right since 2019? If and when we are excluded from this year's tournament, then have at it. But if we do make the tournament, that means that since the extension and in his "2 year window to get it right", he will have made it to every Final Four (Tournament) that has been held, and would have made the other one had it been held.

If that's getting it "wrong" I don't want to be right.
Click to expand...
What he has gotten wrong is losing to teams like la salle and Hofstra. A team like UR that brings back as many contributors as they did simply does not lose those type of games. This team should be on a run like some of the great mid majors that we have seen over the last decade (Dayton last year, Wofford 2 years ago, SDSU over several years, etc.) they are not, and that is squarely on the coach.

I’m still not sure where anyone gets that UR was a lock for the NCAA’s last year either. It looked like the A10 was possibly going to be a one bid league and only would have been 2 bid if someone other than Dayton won the conference tournament. I would guess that UR would have had to at least made the tournament final to get into the NCAA’s and I don’t think that would have happened given mooneys track record in the A10 tournament. Of course we will never know for sure and can only speculate. My biggest problem is this year. For all the “best class ever” talk from the coach we should be seeing a run like one of the teams I mentioned above. There is still time to fix this season but a lot of it rides on beating vcu, who as we all know is a thorn in Mooney’s side. So yes I think this game is the biggest regular season game of Mooney’s career so far.
 
712_VT said:
What he has gotten wrong is losing to teams like la salle and Hofstra. A team like UR that brings back as many contributors as they did simply does not lose those type of games. This team should be on a run like some of the great mid majors that we have seen over the last decade (Dayton last year, Wofford 2 years ago, SDSU over several years, etc.) they are not, and that is squarely on the coach.

I’m still not sure where anyone gets that UR was a lock for the NCAA’s last year either. It looked like the A10 was possibly going to be a one bid league and only would have been 2 bid if someone other than Dayton won the conference tournament. I would guess that UR would have had to at least made the tournament final to get into the NCAA’s and I don’t think that would have happened given mooneys track record in the A10 tournament. Of course we will never know for sure and can only speculate. My biggest problem is this year. For all the “best class ever” talk from the coach we should be seeing a run like one of the teams I mentioned above. There is still time to fix this season but a lot of it rides on beating vcu, who as we all know is a thorn in Mooney’s side. So yes I think this game is the biggest regular season game of Mooney’s career so far.
Click to expand...
I am going to speculate about anything else, but...

Our first A-10 Tourney game would have likely been the winner of Davidson/LaSalle. If it was LaSalle and we were lost we would have been out. Any other outcome, we would have likely been 80% in. (Other teams would play too)
 
kneepadmckinney said:
But if we do make the tournament, that means that since the extension and in his "2 year window to get it right", he will have made it to every Final Four (Tournament) that has been held, and would have made the other one had it been held.
Click to expand...

712_VT gets stuff wrong here but his timeline is accurate and yours is not kneepad. The extension was in September of 2020 after the 19-20 season not 19. I hear what you say otherwise & how rest of this year goes will tell us a lot. But...

Fact is Hardt did essentially say the 2 year window. Word for word of course not but it was still clear. Publicly he alluded to clear expectations these 2 years. Privately I understand he said as much more directly to UR constituents. I really think Hardt figured an NCAA this year was a lock thus the contract extension. But he choked. He flat out choked imo. In the middle of Covid there was no reason to give 2 more years taking Moon to 3 left after this year. If so you have to be prepared to eat the deal OR you built in a favorable buyout I've long pushed, which was more than feasible since we had the leverage. But I doubt UR AD had the smarts for that and obviously we don't announce contract details for highest paid guys in a billion dollar operation even though Moon is going to end up on 990 forms legally anyway.

some will say UR is giving Moon credit for NCAA last year. Yeah & its bush league. Look I even advocated for NCAA to do a selection show, I wanted that. But they didn't. So stop with the participation trophies. Benefit of doubt is long gone. Did we get to hang NCAA banner? No. Were we a lock? No. Were we trending well? Yes.

But giving ourselves credit is the ultimate participation trophy. Is that what higher ed is teaching. The top dog can not fail to meet goals for 10 straight years and not have accountability. It goes against the whole mission of the university, its mind numbing. The extension in Sept really went against what was put out there as established expectations. I would consider Hardt reneging on that if Mooney fails to make NCAA this year and returns.

Alas Moon and the team still has time here to write their ending and I'm all aboard to see that happen. I went off a bit here but what VT raised did have some substance.
 
I will say it again - nothing is happening to Mooney. As mentioned above - last year will be considered and NCAA year - and I have no problem with that - I think we would have made it. This year - even if we don't make it, we are on the bubble and the excuse that can be used is we had too many COVID Pauses and sometimes, those are just out of our control. I don't like it, but I can't argue much with that.
And all along my expectation is just that UR be on the bubble come NCAA time because if we can do that more times than not - some you will get in and others you will be left out, but at least we are in the mix most years.

BUT - Boston College did just open up again. I think I remember Mooney turning them down a while ago. I think they have a new AD, and with possibly everyone leaving - big rebuild I think coming for the Spiders. Does Mooney have his agent call BC to gauge interest?
 
  • Like
Reactions: SpiderDad75 and plydogg
SpiderTrap said:
I will say it again - nothing is happening to Mooney. As mentioned above - last year will be considered and NCAA year - and I have no problem with that - I think we would have made it. This year - even if we don't make it, we are on the bubble and the excuse that can be used is we had too many COVID Pauses and sometimes, those are just out of our control. I don't like it, but I can't argue much with that.
And all along my expectation is just that UR be on the bubble come NCAA time because if we can do that more times than not - some you will get in and others you will be left out, but at least we are in the mix most years.
Click to expand...

I agree UR won’t make move but it’s just beyond frustrating they won’t consider.

And I don’t give that credit myself for reasons already stated.

Always excuses. 68 teams won’t have them.

the get on the bubble & u r bound to get in is just theory not practice for us. Most times we r not bubble & if we don’t make this year it’s just another year we didn’t. 10 years. Those theory percentages apparently don’t apply to us.

& remember this is not some year we exceed expectations and get on bubble. We were preseason A10 favorite. We’ve been building for this year for a decade. No ncaa would be a complete failure & likely Moon’s worst year ever relative to ability. That has to be factor.

but first things first. Beat vcu. Don’t misinterpret it’s not personal I am rooting as hard as anyone for Mooney and this team to have all the success it deserves.

Has to start tomorrow night w a must win.
 
GKiller said:
712_VT gets stuff wrong here but his timeline is accurate and yours is not kneepad. The extension was in September of 2020 after the 19-20 season not 19. I hear what you say otherwise & how rest of this year goes will tell us a lot. But...

Fact is Hardt did essentially say the 2 year window. Word for word of course not but it was still clear. Publicly he alluded to clear expectations these 2 years. Privately I understand he said as much more directly to UR constituents. I really think Hardt figured an NCAA this year was a lock thus the contract extension. But he choked. He flat out choked imo. In the middle of Covid there was no reason to give 2 more years taking Moon to 3 left after this year. If so you have to be prepared to eat the deal OR you built in a favorable buyout I've long pushed, which was more than feasible since we had the leverage. But I doubt UR AD had the smarts for that and obviously we don't announce contract details for highest paid guys in a billion dollar operation even though Moon is going to end up on 990 forms legally anyway.

some will say UR is giving Moon credit for NCAA last year. Yeah & its bush league. Look I even advocated for NCAA to do a selection show, I wanted that. But they didn't. So stop with the participation trophies. Benefit of doubt is long gone. Did we get to hang NCAA banner? No. Were we a lock? No. Were we trending well? Yes.

But giving ourselves credit is the ultimate participation trophy. Is that what higher ed is teaching. The top dog can not fail to meet goals for 10 straight years and not have accountability. It goes against the whole mission of the university, its mind numbing. The extension in Sept really went against what was put out there as established expectations. I would consider Hardt reneging on that if Mooney fails to make NCAA this year and returns.

Alas Moon and the team still has time here to write their ending and I'm all aboard to see that happen. I went off a bit here but what VT raised did have some substance.
Click to expand...
I agree it has been a moving target.
But I think some were looking at the situation during the time of this article and thought that was the original 2 year window.

Q and A with Richmond VP/AD John Hardt on Chris Mooney's situation | University of Richmond | richmond.com
 
Gallipoli said:
The Ramlets are going to have to tie their shoelaces tight.
richmond.com

VCU preparing to take on formidable challenge of Richmond offense

"They do what they do and they do it very well."
richmond.com richmond.com

"They're very good. They're older. They do what they do and they do it very well,” Rhoades said. “And I think, offensively, they're very efficient and they do such a great job of playing the right way together because they're been around each other for a long time. They know each other's strengths. They want each other to have the ball.”

All five Richmond starters average double-figure points, led by Blake Francis’ 16.6 per game.
Click to expand...
I'll take good D vs good O and let's all enjoy what should be a very entertaining game with two teams with opposite strengths. We've all been very patient to get to this game.
 
  • Like
Reactions: urfan1, Spiders4ever and SpiderDogg
urmite said:
I agree it has been a moving target.
But I think some were looking at the situation during the time of this article and thought that was the original 2 year window.

Q and A with Richmond VP/AD John Hardt on Chris Mooney's situation | University of Richmond | richmond.com
Click to expand...

Thanks mite yes that is correct and aligns with what 712 VT said.

"The expectations that coach Mooney and I discuss on a regular basis are for our basketball program to compete at the highest level. After several years with no NCAA tournament appearances, coach Mooney and I have talked about our strong desire to return to the NCAA tournament. Coach Mooney and I share a sense of urgency, and we are on the same page in terms of expectations for the program. "

Imagine what Hardt said outside the confines of the RTD to others. IF...if...we don't make tourney this year in what was the highest likelihood year to make it of all time in UR history, we'll have zero appearances factually. 1 unknown, a maybe. If they want to sell that as meeting expectations in the 2 year window and then also be ok with severely diminished expectations in the following years that's fine, just also be ok with so many judging that as a weasel move.
 
I appreciate the discussion. My responses would be, in no particular order:

1. Agree if we don't make the tournament this year, that is a failure. Failure to meet expectations, failure to live up to potential, etc. No dispute there.

2. As for last year, I guess I would say that in my view while I agree we can't hang a banner for a Final Four (Tournament) appearance, neither can we use the absence of being able to hang a banner against him, as if last year's team never happened. We were f&$king good, and I agree with the sentiment above that as long as we handled our business in the first round of A-10, we were very, very likely to be in. So technically no Final Four (Tournament) appearance, but it's also not fair to weaponize that like with other years where we did not make it (like with TJ and Shawn'dre's senior year). That is a big part of what I was reacting to in 712's original post.

3. I did not independently audit when the extension occurred so was just going off of what 712 wrote regarding the 2 year window of the 2019-20 season and the 2020-21 season. If that is the window being referenced, the actual results in W-L are very, very strong.
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: spiderman and plydogg
Fair boss mckinney. Re: #2 not trying weaponize it myself if I give that impression. I was higher on the team than anyone on board last year. We were good. but fact is we were still probably just a 60% favorite to win that 1st rd game vs. likely Davidson. That's it. Especially with Mooney's poor A10 tourney numbers. I'm fine disregarding it (not for the players but for Mooney). U r still left with 8 straight prior years of no NCAA, this then would become the 9th. He doesn't get the benefit of the doubt given the history, if he does it's truly participation trophy time. I sincerely don't think that's an unreasonable take. Don't count against, don't count for. Problem is Hardt choked. He put us in another tough situation on a contract when we all just saw what a long 10 year deal did.

Anyway I'm borrowing trouble, plenty of time for that, let's focus in on VCU. Go Spiders.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kneepadmckinney
712_VT said:
A team like UR that brings back as many contributors as they did simply does not lose those type of games. This team should be on a run like some of the great mid majors that we have seen over the last decade (Dayton last year, Wofford 2 years ago, SDSU over several years, etc.) they are not, and that is squarely on the coach.
Click to expand...
I like this roster a lot but some of you are delusional thinking it's so loaded we should roll over everyone and any loss is shocking. we're good. we're not dominant. a lesser talent team can have a good night and beat us. we can have a good night and beat a better team. just like other Spider teams ... last year, in 2011, in 2001, in 1988, etc ...

I went into the season hoping we'd knock off a couple of teams we "shouldn't" beat, and knowing we'd likely lose a couple that we "shouldn't" lose. that's reality. that happens to pretty much every team. the "better" team doesn't always win. in fact they lose more often than you'd think. sports would be pretty boring if they didn't.

we've missed too many games with Covid and we've lost too many. we're on the wrong side of the bubble. but this is still totally in our range. too many here post like the season's a failure already when there's lots to play.
 
spiderman said:
I like this roster a lot but some of you are delusional thinking it's so loaded we should roll over everyone and any loss is shocking. we're good. we're not dominant. a lesser talent team can have a good night and beat us. we can have a good night and beat a better team. just like other Spider teams ... last year, in 2011, in 2001, in 1988, etc ...

I went into the season hoping we'd knock off a couple of teams we "shouldn't" beat, and knowing we'd likely lose a couple that we "shouldn't" lose. that's reality. that happens to pretty much every team. the "better" team doesn't always win. in fact they lose more often than you'd think. sports would be pretty boring if they didn't.

we've missed too many games with Covid and we've lost too many. we're on the wrong side of the bubble. but this is still totally in our range. too many here post like the season's a failure already when there's lots to play.
Click to expand...
Why can’t UR be what Xavier, temple used to be in the A10? Or what Dayton, vcu and even Davidson have been more recently? It’s time to quit making excuses and just do it. It could start tomorrow who knows.
 
spiderman said:
I like this roster a lot but some of you are delusional thinking it's so loaded we should roll over everyone and any loss is shocking. we're good. we're not dominant.
Click to expand...
I think this raises two questions: 1) if we are simply good and not dominant, what does that say about either our recruitment or our coaching with this talent/experience, and 2) how likely are we to ever assemble a better roster if this is our best chance (maybe?) in a decade.

I really like these guys and pull hard for them. But we have to look at this objectively at some point and recognize that if we can’t succeed in what is supposed to be our best chance, then we have to change direction. I don’t know why this is even arguable.

That said, beat VCU, give everyone a reason not to give up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Eight Legger, KE Spider and 712_VT
I’ve been killing it so far on fan duel, gonna have to take vcu -3.5 and go with the old fan hedge.
 
AnnapSpider said:
I’m going with the theory that being the dog will only add to our players incentive!
Click to expand...
Because that has worked before. vcu is UR and Mooney’s daddy and they know it. Mooney is scared to death of vcu to the point that he does stuff like put 6 players on the court.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: Spiders4ever
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

spider23

Gripes so Far

Replies
14
Views
995
UR Basketball Board
brooklyn brownstone
B
spider23

X Factors

Replies
59
Views
3K
UR Basketball Board
urmite
urmite
SFspidur

Around the A-10: 2024–25 Edition

Replies
91
Views
7K
UR Basketball Board
Spiders4ever
Spiders4ever
Section9.RowD

'24-'25 Spiders Friends and Family

Replies
42
Views
4K
UR Basketball Board
MrTbone
MrTbone
Section9.RowD

Future Spider basketball GM nominations?

Replies
5
Views
474
UR Basketball Board
spiderman
spiderman
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT
Top Bottom
Back