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Update on Residence Halls renaming & Paul Queally

If history books removed the parts about racists and the Civil War and slave ownership, Or if books about those things were banned or removed from libraries and bookstores, I would agree with you. That's not at all what's happening, though.

What's happening is that institutions are applying the standard of "If we were naming this thing right now, today, would we name it after this person?" And if the answer is no, then why allow an existing name in honor of that person to remain? It's a fairly logical process whether or not you agree with it in every instance.
 
If we have to change the names of everything because of the past where do you draw the line?
FDR, because he refused to allow a ship of German Jewish refugees into America and forced them
back to Nazi Germany? How about JFK who invited Frank Sinatra to the Whitehouse and told him
he couldn’t bring his best friends, Sammy Davis, Jr. because he was black?
These are historical facts, but where are the students protesting these past Presidents?
 
We don’t have anything named after FDR or JFK on campus that I’m aware of.

Regardless, the current question is about two specific figures in UR’s history. Our community is speaking up about which side of “the line” they should be on.
 
If we have to change the names of everything because of the past where do you draw the line?
FDR, because he refused to allow a ship of German Jewish refugees into America and forced them
back to Nazi Germany? How about JFK who invited Frank Sinatra to the Whitehouse and told him
he couldn’t bring his best friends, Sammy Davis, Jr. because he was black?
These are historical facts, but where are the students protesting these past Presidents?
The short answer is that every generation (and specific groups of people within it) gets to draw the line wherever the majority wants to. People did things differently 1,000 years ago than we do today. They had the right to do what they wanted then, just as we have the right to change things the way we see fit now, the same way people 150 years from now may change all the things we did. So be it. That's how the world works. Nothing is written in stone -- quite literally.
 
The short answer is that every generation (and specific groups of people within it) gets to draw the line wherever the majority wants to. People did things differently 1,000 years ago than we do today. They had the right to do what they wanted then, just as we have the right to change things the way we see fit now, the same way people 150 years from now may change all the things we did. So be it. That's how the world works. Nothing is written in stone -- quite literally.
But is it the majority?
I don’t totally disagree with you, but who’s going to care in 4 years from now? No one, because history can’t replaced
with blinders.
 
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You can find something bad about anyone if you look hard enough. George Washington and almost all the founding fathers owned slaves, are we gonna take George Washington off the dollar bill or rename everything that’s named after him? No we’re not and we better not. The day we do anything to George Washington I’m leaving this country. My family has been here for at least 300 years and I know we’re far from perfect and I would venture to say most people’s families are the same way.
 
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You can find something bad about anyone if you look hard enough. George Washington and almost all the founding fathers owned slaves, are we gonna take George Washington off the dollar bill or rename everything that’s named after him? No we’re not and we better not. The day we do anything to George Washington I’m leaving this country. My family has been here for at least 300 years and I know we’re far from perfect and I would venture to say most people’s families are the same way.
I agree. Logic seems to have escaped some people.
 
But is it the majority?
I don’t totally disagree with you, but who’s going to care in 4 years from now? No one, because history can’t replaced
with blinders.
You're confusing "history being replaced" with "a few people no longer being publicly honored."
 
You can find something bad about anyone if you look hard enough. George Washington and almost all the founding fathers owned slaves, are we gonna take George Washington off the dollar bill or rename everything that’s named after him? No we’re not and we better not. The day we do anything to George Washington I’m leaving this country. My family has been here for at least 300 years and I know we’re far from perfect and I would venture to say most people’s families are the same way.
As with most things in life, you weigh the positives and negatives. Washington is in pretty rare air here. I don't think anyone is suggesting, or would suggest, that his name come off anything even despite his failures. But lesser people, like Ryland and Freeman and others, are easier to scrutinize. Changing the names of a couple buildings on the campus of a private school is a lot easier than changing the name of the nation's capital, a state or any number of other things that honor Washington. Right or wrong, it's that simple.
 
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Also why can’t we just accept that fact that owning slaves is a part of our history. It’s not something anyone feels good about (well I guess some do) but we all share the burden of it and have moved past it pretty successfully. We need to just accept the fact that right or wrong people didn’t know better back then and I think if many were still alive today they would feel terrible about being slave owners. There’s a lot of people on the Union side of the war who owned slaves too and feel free to correct me here but I don’t see any of them being cancelled or erased. I believe Grant owned slaves at one point but I haven’t seen any outrage over him. Is this a winners vs losers thing? It really makes you wonder sometimes.
 
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At this point, why not just go to cyclical 5-year naming convention? Auction it off to the highest bidder. Could open it up to corporations or groups of individuals as well. May not be the “academic right answer” but at least it’s very objective. If someone really wants it to carry on over time…set up a trust that can keep bidding in.
 
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Indignation appears to be selective. Mayas practiced human sacrifice. Egyptians, as most civilizations since humans discovered fire, engaged in slavery, but we are not razing the pyramids of either in condemnation of the values of their time.

We are engaged in Presentism....."uncritical adherence to present-day attitudes, especially the tendency to interpret past events in terms of modern values and concepts". This is was confronts us as a society now. How far shall we proceed down this slippery slope? Appears intellectually shallow and ethically arrogant.

Fair game to condemn the mistakes of the past as we see them today. To seek to eradicate all references or symbols of those mistakes is not. Learn from them, contextualize them, and become a better, more inclusive society.
 
Our "issues" don't seem to be of much concern to high school seniors. We have received a record number of applications for the class of 2025 and are expecting an outstanding freshman class to enroll this fall.

Hey, I never, ever vote Republican. But I admit the issues that fire up the far left-wing of my party do not have much interest to mainstream Democrats like myself, this issue included.

Anyway, congrats to the admissions department. Our university has improved by leaps and bounds academically from my days there (1972-76). No way would I get in today, and that's a good thing.

 
Our "issues" don't seem to be of much concern to high school seniors. We have received a record number of applications for the class of 2025 and are expecting an outstanding freshman class to enroll this fall.

Hey, I never, ever vote Republican. But I admit the issues that fire up the far left-wing of my party do not have much interest to mainstream Democrats like myself, this issue included.

Anyway, congrats to the admissions department. Our university has improved by leaps and bounds academically from my days there (1972-76). No way would I get in today, and that's a good thing.

Anyone who only votes a single party is totally mono focused and can not possibly see both sides of an issue.
 
Anyone who only votes a single party is totally mono focused and can not possibly see both sides of an issue.
Until the quality of GQP candidates improves in my state, it's going to stay that way. I prefer people who believe in public education, science, public health, etc., and who don't show up at the 1/6 terrorist attack, something our state GQP has been unable to muster.
 
You’re assuming that everything that the Republicans do is wrong, and everything the Democrats are doing is right..
The fact of the matter is that politician, for most part, politicians only care about themselves and getting re-elected..
Here in blue state Maryland, the Republicans Governor is so popular that the Democrats go apoplectic.
How dare a Republicans have the highest ratings the state has ever seen for a Governor.

Don‘t vote party. Vote for the person that has the same values and train of thoughts as you.
I’ve been an independent my whole adult life, voted for Republicans and Democrats because
I think the party system is not particularly good.
 
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If Hogan ran for governor in Oregon I would probably vote for him. Alas, he isn't. Some douchebag Trumper will. So I won't vote for him/her.
 
Now explain to me why Hogan is a pariah to the leaders of the GQP, and has absolutely no chance of national office.
 
Now explain to me why Hogan is a pariah to the leaders of the GQP, and has absolutely no chance of national office.
He never supported Trump, which in turn made him look as if he wasn’t a “party” man. But, I haven’t seen anything to what you are alluding to. ??
 
By a 22–6 vote from the trustees, W&L won't be changing its name. They will be making some changes, including new investments to support students, removing the photos of Washington and Lee from the diplomas, changing Lee Chapel's name to University Chapel and physically separating the auditorium portion from the Lee sculpture/crypt, and ending the tradition of honoring Lee's birthday with Founders Day.

 
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Here we go with starting to remove Washington from stuff. That’s a slippery slope that we don’t need to go down.
 
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Any potential concerns about Washington are vastly outweighed by those about Lee. Washington's image is being removed from the diploma simply due to the fact that you can't really remove only one of the images, considering the name of the university.

If Lee wasn't involved, there wouldn't be any serious discussion here.
 
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By a 22–6 vote from the trustees, W&L won't be changing its name. They will be making some changes, including new investments to support students, removing the photos of Washington and Lee from the diplomas, changing Lee Chapel's name to University Chapel and physically separating the auditorium portion from the Lee sculpture/crypt, and ending the tradition of honoring Lee's birthday with Founders Day.

Nice to see adults show some courage. Two exceptionally fine men, warts and all. Inspiring leaders in many facets of life beyond the purely military.

We can condemn slavery without condemning everyone from a different era associated with it when different standards and different values were the norm. As a Nation, would be better served celebrating our progress, under the realization that work remains to be done, rather than poking at the old wounds of growing pains.
 
Wood, believe I heard that several eastern counties in Oregon want to secede and become part of Idaho. True? Why?
 
Wood, believe I heard that several eastern counties in Oregon want to secede and become part of Idaho. True? Why?
Because Oregon is a very blue state and they don't like losing by 300-400k votes in every statewide election, and being the minority party (by a large margin) in the legislature. I say, pay us compensation for state facilities and join the spudheads. Very few in the populated regions of Oregon would miss them.

Of course, they would lose their minds once they discover Idaho elected a gay Senator back in the 1990s, and that the Boise area (Ada County) is becoming bluer by the day.
 
I am also quite tickled by the constant equation of Washington to overall nobodies like Ryland and Freeman. It’s so predictable, and so silly.
 
“This idea of purity and you’re never compromised and you’re always politically woke and all that stuff, you should get over that quickly. The world is messy. There are ambiguities. People who do really good stuff have flaws.”
 
I am also quite tickled by the constant equation of Washington to overall nobodies like Ryland and Freeman. It’s so predictable, and so silly.
Actually, they were “somebody“ to many. And while some would say you are a nobody, there are your friends and family that think you’re a pretty special somebody.
 
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I can’t say how many times I’ve said it but you can find something bad about anyone. I don’t know much about Ryland or Freeman but I do know a lot about guys like Lee and Washington. Lee despite what people think was a great man and one of the best citizens of our great commonwealth. He said he would only raise his sword against his country if his state were involved and he did a lot more for his state after the war was over. He helped re establish good relations between the former states of the confederacy and the rest of the union after the war and even said that he never wanted any statues up of him or any other Confederate leaders. At the end of the day though he gets a bad wrap because of what side he was on during the war, I get it but I hate to see someone like Lee dragged through the mud. As far Washington goes I don’t even know what to say to people who want to cancel him. Sure he may have owned a few slaves but Jesus Christ he’s the reason we are all as free as we are today and who knows what the hell would be going on over here if it wasn’t for guys like him. When are we gonna get over the fact that people owned slaves back in the day? It shouldn’t be a reason to erase everything about someone. Things were a lot different back then and it’s a good thing we moves past slavery.
 
Actually, they were “somebody“ to many. And while some would say you are a nobody, there are your friends and family that think you’re a pretty special somebody.

You surely get what I was saying. I am not concerned with offending mama hyland or grandma Freeman. These guys are historical nobodies.
 
I can’t say how many times I’ve said it but you can find something bad about anyone. I don’t know much about Ryland or Freeman but I do know a lot about guys like Lee and Washington. Lee despite what people think was a great man and one of the best citizens of our great commonwealth. He said he would only raise his sword against his country if his state were involved and he did a lot more for his state after the war was over. He helped re establish good relations between the former states of the confederacy and the rest of the union after the war and even said that he never wanted any statues up of him or any other Confederate leaders. At the end of the day though he gets a bad wrap because of what side he was on during the war, I get it but I hate to see someone like Lee dragged through the mud. As far Washington goes I don’t even know what to say to people who want to cancel him. Sure he may have owned a few slaves but Jesus Christ he’s the reason we are all as free as we are today and who knows what the hell would be going on over here if it wasn’t for guys like him. When are we gonna get over the fact that people owned slaves back in the day? It shouldn’t be a reason to erase everything about someone. Things were a lot different back then and it’s a good thing we moves past slavery.

Who is cancelling Washington, and why are you bringing it up here?
 
Who is cancelling Washington, and why are you bringing it up here?
Last year with all the rioting going on there were plenty of people vandalizing statues of him all around the country. Also if you were my age you would know that there are a lot of people in their late teens/20’s that hate Washington and many other people that were integral parts of our country all because of slavery. Now I realize that saying “all because of slavery” is a slippery slope and I don’t agree with slavery by any means but people need to stop thinking they can go back and change the past. This stuff is scary and is especially scary because it’s younger people that are behind it and like it or not some of those people will end up in positions of power some day. If they are willing to erase people like Washington and other heroes than they will definitely be willing to take down people a lot smaller. I seriously fear if I ever get in any kind of trouble some day because of a tweet I had in the past or something else I did when I was younger than I am even now. I was stupid in the past and have done a lot of idiotic things, none as bad as slavery but I still fear what could happen to me because of the direction things are going in.
 
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