The US, Ukraine, Russia and Obama

[Gallipoli]

Here is a translation of the article translated by Chrome.

Russia is restoring its unity - the tragedy of 1991, this terrible catastrophe in our history, its unnatural dislocation, has been overcome. Yes, at a great cost, yes, through the tragic events of an actual civil war, because now brothers, divided by belonging to the Russian and Ukrainian armies, are still shooting at each other, but there will be no more Ukraine as anti-Russia. Russia is restoring its historical fullness, gathering the Russian world, the Russian people together - in all its totality of Great Russians, Belarusians and Little Russians. If we had abandoned this, if we had allowed the temporary division to take hold for centuries, then we would not only betray the memory of our ancestors, but would also be cursed by our descendants for allowing the disintegration of the Russian land.

Наступление России и нового мира

Новый мир рождается на наших глазах. Военная операция России на Украине открыла новую эпоху — причем сразу в трех измерениях. И конечно, в четвертом,... РИА Новости, 26.02.2022

web.archive.org

 

[Gallipoli]

This article is really brazen...

"Now this problem is gone - Ukraine has returned to Russia. This does not mean that its statehood will be liquidated, but it will be reorganized, re-established and returned to its natural state of part of the Russian world."

Наступление России и нового мира

Новый мир рождается на наших глазах. Военная операция России на Украине открыла новую эпоху — причем сразу в трех измерениях. И конечно, в четвертом,... РИА Новости, 26.02.2022

web.archive.org

 

[Gallipoli]

This is the real reason... Russia saw Europe and the US as weak. This guy didn't even consider The United States of America.

"The West as a whole, and even more so Europe in particular, did not have the strength to keep Ukraine in its sphere of influence, and even more so to take Ukraine for itself. In order not to understand this, one had to be just geopolitical fools....

"The States [will] go into self-isolation (as a result of growing internal conflicts and contradictions) or focus on the Pacific region, where the geopolitical center of gravity is moving....

Yes, Biden showed weakness in withdrawing from Afghanistan.

 

[Gallipoli]

"Russia has not only challenged the West, it has shown that the era of Western global domination can be considered completely and finally over."..

Did these idiots think we would like it? Did they think we wouldn't respond? Did they think we would accept a 2-bit dictator running loose in Europe? The last time that happened the world suffered 85 million deaths. If we don't help the Ukrainians run the Russians out, then we will have to escalate our involvement.

 

[Gallipoli]

This analyst, Elliott Cohen, really nails the issues. Joe Biden is fiddling, while Ukraine burns. He lists 3 errors by Western leaders, especially Biden, but also Macron and Schoz.

Biden is afraid of Russian threats.
"Western statecraft has stumbled, in part, because Western leaders have given too much credence to their fears of Russian escalation—and far worse, broadcast them...."

Biden has not seized the moment.
"Part of statecraft is about seizing opportunities. By the early fall of 2022, Ukraine’s surprising battlefield effectiveness and resilience had opened up a window in which one could imagine the liberation of much, if not all, of its territories.... Such an outcome may still come to pass, but at an increasingly, and unnecessarily, high cost, now that Russia has had time to dig in and mobilize hundreds of thousands of additional troops...."

There is no sense of urgency to scale up efforts
"it will require an overwhelming sense of urgency, commitment, and willingness to act on the right scale to make that happen...[A]t this juncture in world history, when a great deal of prosperity and freedom depend on Ukrainian victory and—equally important—Russian defeat, it is time for the United States to get far more transactional."

Move Fast and Win Things

What the war in Ukraine has revealed about statecraft.

www.foreignaffairs.com

 

[Gallipoli]

A year later, the war in Ukraine has become, to a large extent, the West’s own.

If this monumental effort fails to thwart President Vladimir Putin’s ambitions, the setback would not only undermine American credibility on the world stage but also endanger the future of the Western alliance.

We also better be ready for China, in case they see weakness because we have depleted stocks of weapons and ammunition.

 

[Gallipoli]

So, the US has no intention of providing Abrams tanks to Ukraine for 2 years. This is disgusting. Joe Biden owns this. His failure is Ukraine will destroy the US.

 

[Long Time Spider Fan]

So, the US has no intention of providing Abrams tanks to Ukraine for 2 years. This is disgusting. Joe Biden owns this. His failure is Ukraine will destroy the US.

You are quite passionate in your support of Ukraine (as am I), and are constantly berating Biden for not doing enough. You also appear to be a staunch Republican. Will you be voting for Trump or DeSantis if nominated? Trump claims he would have "made a deal" and given Putin part of Ukraine, and DeSantis says the war is simply a "territorial dispute" and the US should stay out of it. Despite your criticism of Biden, huge difference in Biden and those 2 guys when it comes to support for Ukraine.

 

[Gallipoli]

So, the US has no intention of providing Abrams tanks to Ukraine for 2 years. This is disgusting. Joe Biden owns this. His failure is Ukraine will destroy the US.

You are quite passionate in your support of Ukraine (as am I), and are constantly berating Biden for not doing enough.

I made the above comment after I saw a live interview of Olena Zelenska and Hillary Clinton by Joe Scarborough and Mika Brenzinski on MSNBC on Monday morning. Olena Zelenska was almost in tears, throughout the interview. At the end, Joe Scarborough asked Hillary Clinton why the Biden Administration was going to wait two years before delivering 15 Abrams tanks to Ukraine. Hillary Clinton laughed and said, well it takes bureaucracy a long time to act. Joe Scarborough laughed. But Ms. Zalenska started crying. In fact, Joe Biden is afraid of the consequences and is going to wait until after the election.

Jack Keane has noted that the Marines are decommissioning 500 Abrams tanks. Jack asked "Why can't we send those to Ukraine?"

Nothing is more disgusting than Biden letting people get killed, because he is afraid of what Donald Trump will say in two years.

 

[Gallipoli]

Russia downs a $30 million drone. Watch Biden retreat.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/14/politics/us-drone-russian-jet-black-sea/index.html

 

[Long Time Spider Fan]

I made the above comment after I saw a live interview of Olena Zelenska and Hillary Clinton by Joe Scarborough and Mika Brenzinski on MSNBC on Monday morning. Olena Zelenska was almost in tears, throughout the interview. At the end, Joe Scarborough asked Hillary Clinton why the Biden Administration was going to wait two years before delivering 15 Abrams tanks to Ukraine. Hillary Clinton laughed and said, well it takes bureaucracy a long time to act. Joe Scarborough laughed. But Ms. Zalenska started crying. In fact, Joe Biden is afraid of the consequences and is going to wait until after the election.

Jack Keane has noted that the Marines are decommissioning 500 Abrams tanks. Jack asked "Why can't we send those to Ukraine?"

Nothing is more disgusting than Biden letting people get killed, because he is afraid of what Donald Trump will say in two years.

Sorry what's disgusting is this quote ,"Nothing is more disgusting than Biden letting people get killed, because he is afraid of what Donald Trump will say in two years."
You may not like Biden's decisions, but to suggest that he is making decisions based on fear of the twice impeached, probably soon to be indicted, pathological liar who took the fifth over 400 times in a NY civil case, is ludicrous. Biden already kicked his butt in the last election, my guess is that Trump is the last thing he would ever consider in making decisions.

And you never answered my question, are you voting for Trump or DeSantis if one is the Republican nominee? You may think Biden is not doing enough, but based on their comments, Trump or DeSantis would drop support for Ukraine like a hot potato. And right now, those 2 are the leading candidates for the Republican nomination. You going to throw Ukraine under the bus and vote for one of them?

 

[Gallipoli]

And you never answered my question, are you voting for Trump or DeSantis if one is the Republican nominee? You may think Biden is not doing enough, but based on their comments, Trump or DeSantis would drop support for Ukraine like a hot potato. And right now, those 2 are the leading candidates for the Republican nomination. You going to throw Ukraine under the bus and vote for one of them?

The WSJ editorial page nails it...

The argument goes that Mr. DeSantis is reading the political mood: About 40% of Republicans say the U.S. is providing “too much” support for Ukraine, up from about 9% in March last year. Yet some of this is a function of polarized U.S. politics. Many Republicans oppose helping Ukraine because Mr. Biden is doing it, and the mirror image is Democrats from the antiwar left putting Ukrainian flag stickers on their electric cars.

 

[Gallipoli]

With all due respect, the Democrats have been politicizing foreign policy since the Vietnam War. You are upset, when Republicans play by the same rules.

The difference is that DeSantis will listen to Marco Rubio. Expect DeSantis to make a trip to Ukraine.

No, Joe Biden needs to spell out the reasons why the fight in Ukraine is a vital, core, national security interest of this country. Presidents have to do this. He has not. Biden has brought along a good international coalition, Trump cant.

 

[Gallipoli]

The Ukrainians are really letting the Russians have it. Here they bombed the FSB's office in Rostov today. It looks like they had a drone watching. The FSB is the sucessor of the KGB.

 

[Gallipoli]

Sorry what's disgusting is this quote ,"Nothing is more disgusting than Biden letting people get killed, because he is afraid of what Donald Trump will say in two years."

Give me one good reason, why Joe Biden is waiting until after the election to provide tanks to Ukraine. Just one. I suggest that you watch the MSNBC interview I mentioned earlier.

 

[Gallipoli]

It is confirmed. The Chinese are now shipping weapons to Russia. They are going through Turkey. Really?

Chinese companies are shipping rifles, body armor to Russia

Customs data obtained by POLITICO reveals direct shipments of Chinese assault rifles, as well as drone shipments and body armor routed via Turkey and the UAE.

www.politico.com

 

[Long Time Spider Fan]

Give me one good reason, why Joe Biden is waiting until after the election to provide tanks to Ukraine. Just one. I suggest that you watch the MSNBC interview I mentioned earlier.

Unlike you, I don't claim to have all the answers. But I can almost guarantee that Biden does not make decisions based on his fear of Trump as you alleged.

 

[Gallipoli]

Unlike you, I don't claim to have all the answers. But I can almost guarantee that Biden does not make decisions based on his fear of Trump as you alleged.

Just one good reason. I will even concede- it doesn't even have to be a good reason

 

[Gallipoli]

Well, it appears that Uncle Joe Biden has changed his mind, again. Our glorious president has moved up the time frame to send Abrams tanks. He will not wait until after the 2024 election, instead he proposes to send them this autumn. It must be a Halloween thing. Trick or Re-Treat. Hey Joe why not send them now. You are only giving them enough to keep the poor Ukrainians alive.

 

[Gallipoli]

Meanwhile, the Brits are sending their Challenger tanks and are including rounds with depleted uranium. That is something the Russians already have. It gives the Ukrainians a tactical advantage and levels the playing field.

 

[Long Time Spider Fan]

Well, it appears that Uncle Joe Biden has changed his mind, again. Our glorious president has moved up the time frame to send Abrams tanks. He will not wait until after the 2024 election, instead he proposes to send them this autumn. It must be a Halloween thing. Trick or Re-Treat. Hey Joe why not send them now. You are only giving them enough to keep the poor Ukrainians alive.

View embedded media

Good thing your glorious Uncle Trump is not President, today Ted Nugent kicked off the Trump rally in Waco by saying he did not pay tax dollars to support Ukraine and its "homosexual weirdo", referring to Zelensky. The crowd cheered. Of course, Zelensky has more guts and courage than Nugent or Trump ever dreamed of having. I don't know the answer but I assume Trump said nothing to dispute his invited guest's statement.

 

[localspider]

Good thing your glorious Uncle Trump is not President, today Ted Nugent kicked off the Trump rally in Waco by saying he did not pay tax dollars to support Ukraine and its "homosexual weirdo", referring to Zelensky. The crowd cheered. Of course, Zelensky has more guts and courage than Nugent or Trump ever dreamed of having. I don't know the answer but I assume Trump said nothing to dispute his invited guest's statement.

So what’s that got to do with Biden sending tanks to Ukraine? In case you lost track, Trump was defeated in the last election.

 

[Gallipoli]

So what’s that got to do with Biden sending tanks to Ukraine? In case you lost track, Trump was defeated in the last election.

It's called an ad hominem fallacy- attack the person and ignore the point. 98% of the liberal comments on the board are ad hominem attacks, mostly about Trump. They cannot defeat the analysis, so they distract and deflect.

 

[Gallipoli]

Joe Biden has been so concerned about escalation into a nuclear war, he has not provided the Ukrainians with the equipment they need. He has not considered the effects of a long war. Putin, however, now sees his best hope of victory to be a long war, lasting well into 2025. By then, Putin hopes the West will tire of supporting Ukraine. The longer the war grinds on, the more likely Western support will dwindle. This is a direct result of democrats politicizing foreign policy.

Here is a good article that makes these arguments in a long winded way.

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/ukraine/putins-forever-war

 

[Long Time Spider Fan]

So what’s that got to do with Biden sending tanks to Ukraine? In case you lost track, Trump was defeated in the last election.

In case you lost track, your hero Trump is the leading Republican candidate for the election in 2024. I do wish Biden would immediately send tanks to Ukraine, unlike some in the Republican party and I'm sure in the Democratic party as well. The difference is that the 2 leading candidates for the presidential nominee appear to be anti Ukraine. While Biden may not be helping as much as you and I would like, he is doing something and has built a good coalition to help Ukraine. The possibility of Trump or DeSantis being elected just encourages Putin to play the long game in Ukraine, hoping Trump or DeSantis is elected so the Ukraine support will end.

 

[localspider]

In case you lost track, your hero Trump is the leading Republican candidate for the election in 2024. I do wish Biden would immediately send tanks to Ukraine, unlike some in the Republican party and I'm sure in the Democratic party as well. The difference is that the 2 leading candidates for the presidential nominee appear to be anti Ukraine. While Biden may not be helping as much as you and I would like, he is doing something and has built a good coalition to help Ukraine. The possibility of Trump or DeSantis being elected just encourages Putin to play the long game in Ukraine, hoping Trump or DeSantis is elected so the Ukraine support will end.

Again, 2024 election candidates or Trump, have nothing to do with Biden sending tanks to Ukraine.

 

[Gallipoli]

Again, 2024 election candidates or Trump, have nothing to do with Biden sending tanks to Ukraine.

So true, in that they do not have conversations in communication with Biden to influence Biden's decisions. Biden has been trying to triangulate current arms policy to Ukraine around what Trump has staked out as an anti-Ukraine position for 2024.

 

[Gallipoli]

I do not understand the priorities of the West. Norway can't produce artillery shells, because Tik Tok is using too much electricity to store "cat videos".

 

[Gallipoli]

You can't make this stuff up. Here is the President of the largest manufacturer of shells in Europe talking about the electricity he says is used to store cat videos. We cannot sacrifice the well-being of the the Ukrainians for the benefit of the Chinese. We have to get our priorities in order.

 

[Long Time Spider Fan]

So true.

Not what you claimed in post #89, you said Biden was making decisions on Ukraine based on a fear of Trump. I guess you have changed your mind. It was a ridiculous claim anyway.

 

[Gallipoli]

Not what you claimed in post #89, you said Biden was making decisions on Ukraine based on a fear of Trump. I guess you have changed your mind. It was a ridiculous claim anyway.

Try to watch the interview of Ms. Zelenska and Hillary Clinton on Morning Joe. I am still waiting for one good reason that Biden should delay the delivery of anything to Ukraine. The fight in Ukraine is a Tier 1, Vital National Security interest for the United States. Last year, we should have given them tanks, F16s, long range ATACMS, HIMARS, etc. Ukraine can destroy Russia for a fraction of the cost to the US. Joe Biden is either afraid of Russia or it is political. Which is it? Why the delay? Give one reason. It doesn't even have to be a good one.

 

[Long Time Spider Fan]

Try to watch the interview of Ms. Zelenska and Hillary Clinton on Morning Joe. I am still waiting for one good reason that Biden should delay the delivery of anything to Ukraine. The fight in Ukraine is a Tier 1, Vital National Security interest for the United States. Last year, we should have given them tanks, F16s, long range ATACMS, HIMARS, etc. Ukraine can destroy Russia for a fraction of the cost to the US. Joe Biden is either afraid of Russia or it is political. Which is it? Why the delay? Give one reason. It doesn't even have to be a good one.

Here you go, here's a couple of reasons per a quote from an NBC news report:
"But both Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Mark Milley have recommended against sending M1 Abrams tanks to Ukraine, the three U.S. officials said.

Milley and Austin have cited how long it takes to train personnel to operate the tanks and how difficult the tanks are to maintain. They also have argued they are not the right vehicles for the fight in Ukraine right now, according to the officials.

One U.S. official said Austin has argued the training to operate and maintain the tanks would take months, and even though the Ukrainians have proven adept at learning many new platforms, he continues to resist sending the Abrams."

I actually agree that I would like these tanks sent to Ukraine, but I maintain that your assertion that Biden is not sending tanks or doing more for Ukraine based on a fear of Trump is ridiculous.

 

[Gallipoli]

Here you go, here's a couple of reasons per a quote from an NBC news report:
"But both Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Mark Milley have recommended against sending M1 Abrams tanks to Ukraine, the three U.S. officials said.

Milley and Austin have cited how long it takes to train personnel to operate the tanks and how difficult the tanks are to maintain. They also have argued they are not the right vehicles for the fight in Ukraine right now, according to the officials.

One U.S. official said Austin has argued the training to operate and maintain the tanks would take months, and even though the Ukrainians have proven adept at learning many new platforms, he continues to resist sending the Abrams."

I actually agree that I would like these tanks sent to Ukraine, but I maintain that your assertion that Biden is not sending tanks or doing more for Ukraine based on a fear of Trump is ridiculous.

Ok. This is a reason, but not a good one. Biden does not want to send tanks, and his sycophants make up a reason. The only reason you give is the Ukrainians will not be able to operate tanks without years of training.

Bull. This is cover for Biden. This is little more than lies and dissembling by the Biden Administration. Biden is either afraid of the Russians or he is a afraid of the politics.

So, Austin says they can't do it, it will take months for training. Well which months would the training start? Will it take 24 months to complete a 6 week training course?
The Brits trained the Ukrainians in England on the Challenger in about 5 weeks. The poles trained the Ukrainians on the Leopard in about 3 weeks.

Here is an idea... cover English writing in the Abrams tanks with little yellow post it notes with Ukrainian instructions.

 

[Gallipoli]

"But both Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Mark Milley have recommended against sending M1 Abrams tanks to Ukraine, the three U.S. officials said....

.....One U.S. official said Austin has argued the training to operate and maintain the tanks would take months, and even though the Ukrainians have proven adept at learning many new platforms, he continues to resist sending the Abrams."

General Jack Keane has stated that the Ukrainians have the capability to easily understand and assimilate the Abrams tank into their war fighting capabilities. Gen, Keane has said we could easily send 500 tanks newly decommissioned tanks by the Marines. Gen. Keane noted that the US was able to air lift about 500 tanks for use in Desert Storm and the Iraq war, along with logistics, support, and fuel.

Mick Ryan, General of the Australian army (Ret) said the Ukrainians have the capability to handle the logistics and support requirements of the Abrams tank. Gen. Ryan fought in Iraq, Kuwait and Afghanistan running several divisions of Abrams tanks. Gen. Ryan commanded about 1,000 Aussies.

Both of these generals know what they are talking about. Why wait two years to send tanks? Why not begin training now?

 

[Gallipoli]

Here is the citation of Mick Ryan's point about Biden's excuses.

 

[Gallipoli]

This 2014 article is classic. In 2004, Baraka Obama was behind the destruction of Ukraine's stockpile of weapons their army needed to support itself in an invasion.

"Flashback: Senator Obama pushed bill that helped destroy more than 15,000 TONS of ammunition, 400,000 small arms and 1,000 anti-aircraft missiles in Ukraine...

Most of the ammunition stockpiles – crucial for keeping a standing army battle-ready – were destroyed...

But while today's (2014) 130,000-strong standing Ukrainian military isn't short on AK-47s, Russian troops have met little to no large-scale resistance from armored divisions or heavy artillery as they steamrolled their way into Crimea.

it's impossible to know whether Putin would have behaved differently in the face of columns of heavy weapons that once belonged to the Soviet Union in whose KGB he held a high-ranking position.

Sky News video broadcast on Tuesday showed Russian troops firing automatic weapons over the heads of apparently unarmed Ukrainian Air Force personnel near a contested airfield in Crimea."

Senator Obama pushed to destroy massive arms, ammo caches in Ukraine

Massive caches of ammunition and shoulder-fired missiles got the axe over freshman Senator Obama's terrorism fears, but could have helped the Ukrainian military today.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Gallipoli]

This analysis by Andrew McCarthy highlights the damage done by Obama towards Ukraine

"I contended in 2014 that “We should be arming the Ukrainians not only because it is in our national interest to repel Putin’s ambitions, but also because we are the ones who disarmed the Ukrainians.” I remain convinced that Obama would not arm Ukraine because, as a senator, he had spearheaded the congressional effort to disarm Ukraine....

To repeat what I said at the time, “The American government official who was at the forefront of disarming Ukraine was none other than Senator Barack Obama."

When Obama Left Ukraine Defenseless | National Review

I remain convinced that Obama would not arm Ukraine because, as a senator, he had spearheaded the congressional effort to disarm Ukraine.

www.nationalreview.com

 

[Gallipoli]

Ukraine’s transfer of weapons back to Russia is one reason the Russians had such a huge stockpile of weapons on Feb 24, 2022.