The Queen's Gambit will Fail - Richmond vs Queens Game thread - Sat 7pm

[Section9.RowD]

Spiders taking on Queens in the 2nd half of the 2nd Spiders football/basketball double header this month. Spiders will win 81-63. I will be watching from the great north in Montreal where we will be for Thanksgiving weekend so will sadly be disappointing LongIslandSpider once again,

 

[fan2011]

Hoping we see Roche and Noyes get back on track in this game, and maybe get some of the freshmen playing time as well.

 

[Section9.RowD]

Hope we hear soon that Delonnie won't be out too long ...

 

[gcarter52]

He will see doctors in Richmond tomorrow.

 

[MrTbone]

If I’m coach I’m moving Bailey into the starting lineup over Noyes.

 

[CarolinaSpider]

If I’m coach I’m moving Bailey into the starting lineup over Noyes.

If Noyes plays like he did against UNLV, we are good with coming in with Dji who
puts even more pressure on team. My bigger concern is what to do with Roche who
has a bad case of the yips.

 

[SpiderDogg]

At least start Dji at the “2” with King until Hunt is back even if you want to keep starting Noyes. Tyne is probably more comfortable coming off the bench anyway

 

[VT4700]

If I’m coach I’m moving Bailey into the starting lineup over Noyes.

Dji has played great so far, but we were ahead 17-4 last game before putting any subs in around the 12:30 mark, so why change that? Unless you have to with the Hunt injury. And, Dji is averaging over 23 mpg anyway. As long as he keeps playing well, the minutes will be there for him, whether he starts or not.

 

[spider23]

Queens up big on FDU. They look like a classic bully team. Whoop up on lower comp, get whooped by similar or better teams.

 

[CarolinaSpider]

Queens has some size as I am watching their game against FDU. DONT take anyone lightly.

 

[Section9.RowD]

I fear I am going to need to get creative to watch tomorrow night - apparently ESPN+ doesn’t work in Canada … sigh

 

[Sandbridge Spider]

Dji May be more valuable as the sixth man.
The energy & playmaking are game changing.

 

[MDspider8]

Hunt is out again tomorrow, seeing a specialist Monday to “gain a clearer understanding of the injury.” Based on his tweet, however, seems like he knows he’s dealing with something serious. If it’s a broken wrist, we’re probably looking at a multiple month absence.

 

[Section9.RowD]

Spiders -12 it would seem based on Vegas ...

 

[Spider2020]

Roche is killing us out there defensively

 

[Section9.RowD]

Nice first half … keep the energy up in the 2nd half

 

[fan2011]

Good to see another easy win

 

[UR80sfan]

Terrific all round game. Quinn seems to get better every game. King is a scoring machine. This team is fun to watch even though all of the wins have been blowouts.

 

[spiders13]

We play pretty damn good defense

 

[Eight Legger]

That's four blowouts in our first six games, which is impressive no matter who we are playing and candidly not something I remember us doing in the Mooney era very often if ever.

The main difference this year is that we are coming out active and aggressive right away every game. I don't know why this has not been the case in years past, even with an all-timer like Gilyard running the show, but it's a noticeable change. I'm not sure who to attribute it to other than King. He really sets the tone and it's infectious.

Quinn has mastered that little push shot, and it's impossible to defend. Queens is not a great team, but we thoroughly destroyed them inside out. This team is pretty fun to watch right now.

 

[97spiderfan]

That's four blowouts in our first six games, which is impressive no matter who we are playing and candidly not something I remember us doing in the Mooney era very often if ever.

The main difference this year is that we are coming out active and aggressive right away every game. I don't know why this has not been the case in years past, even with an all-timer like Gilyard running the show, but it's a noticeable change. I'm not sure who to attribute it to other than King. He really sets the tone and it's infectious.

Quinn has mastered that little push shot, and it's impossible to defend. Queens is not a great team, but we thoroughly destroyed them inside out. This team is pretty fun to watch right now.

Jordan King is the difference in my opinion. Point guard sets the tone. As great as Gilly was for us, we would always seem to play to the level of our competition when he was at the helm.

I don't want to compare Jordan King to an all time great in Gilly but what he is doing out there these first 6 games is really impressive. He is just really difficult to defend because he can kill you from 3 but if you guard him close out there, he is going to take you to the right to the rim and he has an array of finishing moves.

What I think is another difference is that last year and in the Gilly years our PG's would get to the hole only to pass it back out to the 3 point, so in essence they expended all that effort to get to a high percentage shot to pass it back out for a lower percentage shot. King finishes that shit. And when your PG is setting that tone, the other players follow suit. Dji is finishing, Neil is finishing, D-lo is a finisher as well.

We have much tougher competition on the horizon, but this team not settling for 3 and going hard to hole gives me hope that this is not one of Mooney's classic live or die by the 3 type of teams.

 

[gospidersgo]

This team definitely takes care of business against clearly inferior teams. For many years (even in some of our better years) it seems we've had a tendency to play down to the level of our lower competition. I don't know where this season will end up going, but I see this "step on their throats" mentality as a big positive. Hopefully now we can figure out how to win the close ones against better competition - big chance at Wichita this week to take that step.

 

[LongTimeLurkerFirstTimePoster]

Jordan King is the difference in my opinion. Point guard sets the tone. As great as Gilly was for us, we would always seem to play to the level of our competition when he was at the helm.

I don't want to compare Jordan King to an all time great in Gilly but what he is doing out there these first 6 games is really impressive. He is just really difficult to defend because he can kill you from 3 but if you guard him close out there, he is going to take you to the right to the rim and he has an array of finishing moves.

What I think is another difference is that last year and in the Gilly years our PG's would get to the hole only to pass it back out to the 3 point, so in essence they expended all that effort to get to a high percentage shot to pass it back out for a lower percentage shot. King finishes that shit. And when your PG is setting that tone, the other players follow suit. Dji is finishing, Neil is finishing, D-lo is a finisher as well.

We have much tougher competition on the horizon, but this team not settling for 3 and going hard to hole gives me hope that this is not one of Mooney's classic live or die by the 3 type of teams.

"I don't want to compare...., but"..... LOL.

How about compare him to our PG last year, who did a lot of fancy dribbling that got him no where, was afraid to make a decision and spent alot of time letting the clock shot wind down.

BTW, I think King is great, but to compare to him to a guy who scored 2k points and is currently starting in the NBA is ridiculous.

 

[RichmondNative]

We have much tougher competition on the horizon, but this team not settling for 3 and going hard to hole gives me hope that this is not one of Mooney's classic live or die by the 3 type of teams.

Reliance on the 3 is definitely a strategy that I don’t prefer, so it is nice to see some attacking of the basket. However, typically the better competition teams have more height and more athleticism which leads to UR’s smaller guards staying away from the lane because otherwise their shots are blocked. We already have seen a bunch of that, but fortunately the guards have had a short memory. Definitely need some work on shielding the ball and using the rim to protect the shot.

As far as identifying the reason the team is playing differently, I don’t think it is as simple as one player. I think there has been improvement by 3 returning players (Quinn, Bigelow, Bailey) and an infusion of energy from King and Hunt. Obviously Hunt is injured currently, but based on what Mooney has been saying and what we were able to see, Hunt brings the energy to the court. He is a catalyst in my opinion. As I noted during the VMI warmups, the team looked more energized and like they were having fun on the court. That is what was missing for quite some time, even when the Spiders were winning.

Hopefully they keep the energy up. Go Spiders!

 

[urfan1]

Hunt was on the bench and encouraging his teammates even speaking with the coaches. Even while injured still a team player.

 

[Eight Legger]

I think one difference between Gilly and King is what 97 noted: a big part of King's game is the dribble drive to the basket. I don't think it was as big a part of Gilly's. He obviously could do it and did, but opposing defenses didn't necessarily scheme to stop it the way they have to with King.

 

[CH_Spider]

Tell you what, I don't remember having this many "dominant" wins against weaker opponents. I remember having to sweat these games out (or even losing them....)

 

[97spiderfan]

As I noted during the VMI warmups, the team looked more energized and like they were having fun on the court. That is what was missing for quite some time, even when the Spiders were winning.

It was well known that Grant and Gilly were Mooney's boy's who could do know wrong, while the rest of the team was held to a different standard. I'm sure the locker room had a lot of unspoken words, thoughts, feelings.

This year feels different, culture feels different/better. In my mind, that is why despite having two all time great players here together for 5-6 years, the Grant/Gilly era was largely a team that underachieved, played to lesser competition and were it not for Gilly going nuclear in the A-10 tournament that era would have gone down as one of the all time great disappointments.

Those teams had way more talent than than our current team on the floor, but they didn't blow out lesser competition that like this team is doing right now. I think maybe we see a team that is bonded, plays for each other and plays for a common set of goals and they are jelling.

I have to say it is damn refreshing to see that. I still question our overall talent to hold up, especially if Hunt is out for an extended period of time, but this team is easy to like.

 

[spiderman]

In my mind, that is why despite having two all time great players here together for 5-6 years, the Grant/Gilly era was largely a team that underachieved ...

in their final 3 years together, they went 62-29 with a tournament win.

not sure where you're getting this team chemistry issue info either.

 

[VT4700]

It was well known that Grant and Gilly were Mooney's boy's who could do know wrong, while the rest of the team was held to a different standard. I'm sure the locker room had a lot of unspoken words, thoughts, feelings.

This year feels different, culture feels different/better. In my mind, that is why despite having two all time great players here together for 5-6 years, the Grant/Gilly era was largely a team that underachieved, played to lesser competition and were it not for Gilly going nuclear in the A-10 tournament that era would have gone down as one of the all time great disappointments.

Those teams had way more talent than than our current team on the floor, but they didn't blow out lesser competition that like this team is doing right now. I think maybe we see a team that is bonded, plays for each other and plays for a common set of goals and they are jelling.

I have to say it is damn refreshing to see that. I still question our overall talent to hold up, especially if Hunt is out for an extended period of time, but this team is easy to like.

You are sure the locker room had unspoken words? Why? Because they felt Jacob and Grant should have been benched more? Wow. I don't buy that talk at all. So, you really think King and Quinn are treated differently than Jacob and Grant were? How so?

I love this team this year, and agree the chemistry looks great, but I just don't think we go 24-7 in 2020 and win an A-10 title and 1st round tourney game in 2022 without good team chemistry. Seemed to me everyone knew their roles those years, and the guys loved and supported each other. SDad would know better than anyone, but I don't think those teams had any chemistry issues.

And the "if not for Jacob" talk will always crack me up. So, are you supposed to win an A-10 tourney without your best player playing great? I don't get it. And, funny that you also said Jacob was just a "Mooney boy who could do no wrong". So, which one is it?

 

[97spiderfan]

You are sure the locker room had unspoken words?

It was pretty well known that there was division in that locker room. And for the majority of the 2022 season we had a team that underperformed up until the conference tournament. That team was picked to win the A-10 and finished 6th. Same with 2021. So yeah, those two teams underperformed to expectations.

And come on Gilly never got benched no matter his play, you know that, I know that, everyone knows that. Grant was defense optional at times and had no repercussions.

And just watch how this team plays, supports each other, plays for one another now, I think it is different than last year and in fact the last several years. True that is my gut talking more than anything but that is what I am seeing out there.

 

[VT4700]

It was pretty well known that there was division in that locker room. And for the majority of the 2022 season we had a team that underperformed up until the conference tournament. That team was picked to win the A-10 and finished 6th. Same with 2021. So yeah, those two teams underperformed to expectations.

And come on Gilly never got benched no matter his play, you know that, I know that, everyone knows that. Grant was defense optional at times and had no repercussions.

And just watch how this team plays, supports each other, plays for one another now, I think it is different than last year and in fact the last several years. True that is my gut talking more than anything but that is what I am seeing out there.

Well known by who? People that love making stuff up on message boards? Who did you want Jacob benched for? Geez, Mooney, why didn't you bench a starting NBA PG more, right? Come on, man.

 

[VT4700]

In 2022, we started Jacob, Goose, Tyler, Nate, and Grant when they were all healthy. Nick came off the bench and was always 100% about the team and showed emotion and supported the guys like crazy when on the bench. Grace and Wilson were the next guys off the bench and were always about the team. So, where is this chemistry issue you are talking about? Do you think Wilson and Grace feel they should have played more? Where are you getting this info? Just because a few guys on a message board talk about how some young guys get pulled for mistakes and older guys don't (which happens pretty much at every program), you turn this into a bunch of made up locker room issues. Yes, young reserves who do not get a lot of minutes anyway might get pulled after a mistake or two, while older, all conference players might get a lot of minutes. Duh??? Do better.

 

[97spiderfan]

My lord, I hit a nerve. Look, I know better than to argue with you. And no this was not about playing time necessarily but rather certain players being held to a different set of standards than other players. There were lots of internal reasons that was the case, most notably Gilly and Grant publicly backing Mooney during the whole billboard saga.

I'll trust what I heard at the time, you can choose to believe what you want.

 

[VT4700]

Whatever. You have nothing to back up what you are saying. Why not just say the team this year looks like they have great chemistry without having to make crap up about past teams?

Now it makes sense. You hate that Jacob and Grant supported our coach (how dare players like the coach who recruited them and that they wanted to play for, right?), and as a result you want to act like teams that had 24 win seasons had a bunch of chemistry issues. So, answer this.....who were the players who were upset or caused us to have chemistry issues?

 

[spiderman]

And come on Gilly never got benched no matter his play, you know that, I know that, everyone knows that. Grant was defense optional at times and had no repercussions.

Gilly never got benched no matter his play? when did his play warrant him being benched?! he was always our best option at the point, even if his shot wasn't falling. the guy is the UR career leader in 3's, assists and steals ... by a ton.

and as for Grant's "optional at best" defense, his defense wasn't great early but it was never a lack of effort. and his defense was strong his final year. he was by far our best option at the 5 all 5 years and the #2 all-time scorer. you don't bench your best players who are giving great effort.

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

Difference for me is King’s scoring. It opens up the court.

Gilyard often used first half to set up guys nonstop and might only have 1-2 fga in first half. Not a dig at all just a stylistic difference. Gilyard had lots of weapons and was/is a pass first player.

What King is doing is a version of flamethrower A-10 tournament Gilyard. 52/47/85 shooting splits. I want him shooting 15 times a game and that is not something UR pgs have consistently done in many years.

 

[ur2K]

One other wrinkle this year with Quinn is that you could see how frustrated he was with Nelson's post-entry passes (high, low, not in good spots) last year - this year, he is getting the ball in good spots and attacking.

 

[LongTimeLurkerFirstTimePoster]

My lord, I hit a nerve. Look, I know better than to argue with you. And no this was not about playing time necessarily but rather certain players being held to a different set of standards than other players. There were lots of internal reasons that was the case, most notably Gilly and Grant publicly backing Mooney during the whole billboard saga.

I'll trust what I heard at the time, you can choose to believe what you want.

never let the facts get in the way of shaping your narrative. You must work in politics.

 

[kneepadmckinney]

Gilly never got benched no matter his play? when did his play warrant him being benched?! he was always our best option at the point, even if his shot wasn't falling. the guy is the UR career leader in 3's, assists and steals ... by a ton.

and as for Grant's "optional at best" defense, his defense wasn't great early but it was never a lack of effort. and his defense was strong his final year. he was by far our best option at the 5 all 5 years and the #2 all-time scorer. you don't bench your best players who are giving great effort.

I will respectfully disagree on a couple points. And none of this should be read to mean I don't appreciate Grant and Jacob. Gilyard is my second favorite all-time spider, behind Kendall Anthony. And Grant's offensive numbers speak for themselves.

BUT... while he was maybe the best off the ball defender I've ever seen, Gilyard was a pretty pedestrian on-ball defender. He didn't navigate screens well, wasn't great at stopping dribble penetration, etc. Golden, in my own opinion, was a pretty bad defender both effort-wise and fundamental wise. His rotations were bad, he really never closed off baseline drives, and he would lose focus on screen hedging (he'd do it well once in a possession, but then on a re-screen would kind of lose the fundamentals). Those teams were elite offensively, and pretty average defensively.

I think the biggest difference I see this year, in a good way, is that we can put a full team of really good defenders on the floor that are good both effort wise and fundamentals wise, along with defensive skill.