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The case of Vander Blue

Ulla1

Ulla1

Head Coach
Apr 21, 2011
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"Blue, a 6'4" shooting guard from Madison, originally committed to the University of Wisconsin, but received press coverage as he decommitted after becoming disenchanted by negative posts on Wisconsin Badgers internet message boards.[1] Blue ended up enrolling at Marquette for the 2010–11 season. Blue was a key rotation player as a freshman and sophomore, and stepped into a starring role in his junior season. He averaged 14.8 points per game and was named second team All-Big East Conference.[2]

After the season, Blue bypassed his senior season and declared his eligibility for the 2013 NBA draft.[3]"

Recently someone mentioned that negative posts on the message board really did not matter as players do not read them and even if they did, they would not pay attention. Well, look at the case of Vander Blue, recently named a NBA D-League all star with his teammate Justin Harper. Apparently Vander de-committed from Wisconsin after reading negative posts on their message board. He then signed with Marquette, one of their major rivals where he had a very nice career. I would ask each of you to carefully consider your posts as they could have unwanted consequences. Speculation about how a player must be dissatisfied as you noticed they did not smile on the bench or similar things could have negative effects. Moreover, suggesting that the coach be fired or his assistants are not doing their jobs and should be replaced can only hurt our program. Not too long ago, someone closely associated with our program asked me if I had read the UR message board. I told him that not only did I read it but I regularly participated in it. Unsolicited, I volunteered that I posted under the name, Ulla1, and that I was always supportive of everything UR. Ask yourself what you might say if someone closely associated with our program queried you about your involvement in the message board. Would you volunteer your message board name? Could you say that you supported our program through thick or thin? Or, might you be ashamed to let them know about your posts? Seriously think about it after reading the effect it had on Vander Blue’s commitment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vander_Blue
 
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Ulla1 said:
"Blue, a 6'4" shooting guard from Madison, originally committed to the University of Wisconsin, but received press coverage as he decommitted after becoming disenchanted by negative posts on Wisconsin Badgers internet message boards.[1] Blue ended up enrolling at Marquette for the 2010–11 season. Blue was a key rotation player as a freshman and sophomore, and stepped into a starring role in his junior season. He averaged 14.8 points per game and was named second team All-Big East Conference.[2]

After the season, Blue bypassed his senior season and declared his eligibility for the 2013 NBA draft.[3]"

Recently someone mentioned that negative posts on the message board really did not matter as players do not read them and even if they did, they would not pay attention. Well, look at the case of Vander Blue, recently named a NBA D-League all star with his teammate Justin Harper. Apparently Vander de-committed from Wisconsin after reading negative posts on their message board. He then signed with Marquette, one of their major rivals where he had a very nice career. I would ask each of you to carefully consider your posts as they could have unwanted consequences. Speculation about how a player must be dissatisfied as you noticed they did not smile on the bench or similar things could have negative effects. Moreover, suggesting that the coach be fired or his assistants are not doing their jobs and should be replaced can only hurt our program. Not too long ago, someone closely associated with our program asked me if I had read the UR message board. I told him that not only did I read it but I regularly participated in it. Unsolicited, I volunteered that I posted under the name, Ulla1, and that I was always supportive of everything UR. Ask yourself what you might say if someone closely associated with our program queried you about your involvement in the message board. Would you volunteer your message board name? Could you say that you supported our program through thick or thin? Or, might you be ashamed to let them know about your posts? Seriously think about it after reading the effect it had on Vander Blue’s commitment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vander_Blue
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I would be interested in reading what contents of the message board would make him decommit. Seems extreme.
 
I understand both sides, but since I support the program I prefer to err on the side of supporting the program. If our banter cost us one player that could have made a difference I'm not helping the cause.
 
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I think everyone here is supportive of the University of Richmond Spiders. Sometimes, the long view (i.e., we want the best for our university) provokes commentary that is negative in the short term. It's very hard to take seriously commentary that says that everything is great when it is obvious to all that things are not exactly great!
 
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I think the banter story is just that, it's a smokescreen for a bigger issue that no one is talking about.

I think what 97 is saying is that this kid "supposedly" passed on his chance to be on a team (Wisconsin) that would go to 2 Final Fours based on things he read on the Wisconsin board. Had he ended up at W, he might be on an NBA roster right now with the exposure he would have received being on a team that was vying for a national championship. Instead, he ends up at Marquette and is now scratching and clawing in the D-league to get a shot with the NBA.

If our posters spent any time at all on the boards of nationally-competitive programs, they would realize how relatively tame and polite our board really is, and they would realize that having a "Rah-rah, all rainbows and unicorns" type of forum would be dull and insipid and eventually no one would want to contribute to such an uninteresting endeavor.
 
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Yea but the one that really hurts is people starting threads about individual players like the Jesse threads. Maybe the the kid's personality is not to show emotion, maybe he's busting his butt in practice everyday, maybe he's one of the hardest workers on the team.

Maybe Mooney has decided to stick with a three man rotation at guard because he think it gives us the best chance to win games. Maybe if some of our experts paid close attention they would see that most of Julius's minutes are at the 3 especially when we get in foul trouble with our front line because he's a little bigger and more athletic, not necessarily because he's ahead of Jesse in the guard rotation. Maybe Julius is getting most of his reps in practice at the 3.

Maybe there is nothing going on between Mooney and Jesse other than Mooney is supporting the heck out of him everyday and wants him to get better. Sure we will have transfers in the future, it's part of today's college basketball. But I can assure you if it happens with any of our players it will be largely because Coach Mooney will meet wit them when the season's open and give them very honest feedback about their future which is very different than running them off. Some kids want to be assured of playing time some want to develop with the program.
 
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keefusb said:
I think the banter story is just that, it's a smokescreen for a bigger issue that no one is talking about.

I think what 97 is saying is that this kid "supposedly" passed on his chance to be on a team (Wisconsin) that would go to 2 Final Fours based on things he read on the Wisconsin board. Had he ended up at W, he might be on an NBA roster right now with the exposure he would have received being on a team that was vying for a national championship. Instead, he ends up at Marquette and is now scratching and clawing in the D-league to get a shot with the NBA.

If our posters spent any time at all on the boards of nationally-competitive programs, they would realize how relatively tame and polite our board really is, and they would realize that having a "Rah-rah, all rainbows and unicorns" type of forum would be dull and insipid and eventually no one would want to contribute to such an uninteresting endeavor.
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Very well said and explained. Must have been some real hateful stuff written for him to not go to such a great program. I dont think our board ever gets close to that level.
 
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I agree on the subject of speculation on the feelings about an individual current player and in fact, in another thread I said that we should put that type of talk to rest, if for no other reason that it is unproductive.

The Vander Blue case is completely different, as he had not actually played for Wisconsin. I think there was something more significant going on there that was not talked about, and the Wisconsin board commentary became a convenient justification.

If we had a player who had a falling out with the coach, teammates, and/or the program in general, and then said afterwards that the reason he left was because of speculation on our board, I would consider that BS. Or perhaps I would take the position that a kid who decides to leave based solely on what we say on this forum has serious issues with judgment and hypersensitivity, and we would be better off without that player anyway.

Tempest in a teapot if you ask me.
 
I watched Jesse closely during warm ups, timeouts at the GW game. I'm just not seeing any pouting going on or any evidence of dissatisfaction.

Completely agree with Keef's statements.
 
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It would also be helpful if posters took greater advantage of multiple paragraphs in their posts. Perhaps limit each paragraph to 2 or 3 sentences max, it would make reading such posts much easier than digesting a single enormous block of text.
 
From all accounts I have heard Chris is very honest with his kids and try's to help them make a decsion that is best for their future -- even if it may not be best for the team.
 
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KWeaver said:
I think everyone here is supportive of the University of Richmond Spiders. Sometimes, the long view (i.e., we want the best for our university) provokes commentary that is negative in the short term. It's very hard to take seriously commentary that says that everything is great when it is obvious to all that things are not exactly great!
Click to expand...

There is also the opposite - some commentary says everything is not going well when it is obvious that like all things in life there are two sides. Some posts are well thought out and others are in the category of based on the poster's previous posts it is very predictable what will be said and what approach will be taken.
 
spider fan said:
There is also the opposite - some commentary says everything is not going well when it is obvious that like all things in life there are two sides. Some posts are well thought out and others are in the category of based on the poster's previous posts it is very predictable what will be said and what approach will be taken.
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I have not read a single post that said everything is not going well. Please give some examples. Even if this were true I doubt that there are a whole bunch of them. And just in case, I thought john Moran looked smooth and relaxed in pregame warm-ups.
 
Can we talk about Vida Blue instead.Much more interesting personality and great pitcher for the A's.Who cares about what Vander Blue thought about Wisconsin.

Protecting the board with insular sensitivity checks for future recruits/players because a now D league player decided to supposedly decommit from his original college because of what folks wrote about him is ludicrous.

What the basketball board suffers from is an overly generous amount of optimism for our basketball program and how great every recruit is that we offer and how each will contribute to our new found success.It appears
to the casual observer that such optimism boarders on fundamental naïveté coupled with a heavy dose of delusional exhuberance.
 
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I will simply say that I totally support the PRINCIPLE of the starting post, which is the a recruit MAY red our boards, and MAY be influenced, positively or negatively, by them. This CAN happen, and we have at least one example.

So, do I now hesitate, just a bit, about being critical of a guy that we are recruiting, even if I am not excited about him? Yes. I at the very least try to post my evaluation diplomatically, so that it is one that would not turn the kid off. The only example I can think of on this board, recently, has been the discussion of Alexander Petrie. I have supported him fully, but there have been a few marginally "negative' posts about him. The good news is that guys like Andre Wesson seem to have our 100% support. It would be a real shame to lose a guy like him based on something as silly as a post or two. My guess is that 18-year olds (and 17-year-olds too) care more about message boards than we might expect.
 
Since this thread is just a joke, did anyone watch the special about the "Eagles" on CNN. Never a huge fan but the show was pretty effing good.
 
I have no problem giving anyone my info and handle for this forum. Personally, I don't put anything on here that I wouldn't say to someone's face.

If we had a player or recruit who left our program or de-committed because of something one of us says on this forum, I say good riddance, current players included.
 
that's great keef. if we lose a player because of something you post, you say good riddance. because you don't think it's a loss. as if that's for you to decide. but thanks.

Marley, you were just given an example of where a kid does care, whether you think they care what we post or not. sometimes the difference between a kid's choices is so small, any little thing can be the difference maker.

I'm sure or staff, or the next staff if that pleases some of you, would appreciate us not torpedoing their efforts in any way.
 
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I'm glad some of you are so adamant that we have a happy, sanitized forum where you can be nauseatingly positive all the time about our program no matter what state it is in.

The only reason I would give a kid a pass on allowing what someone says here to affect his decision on whether to commit or transfer is if there was an extreme case of character assassination or similar. I have not seen anything like that on this board in the many years I have posted here.

Between the arbitrary locked/deleted threads because someone was butt-hurt by something someone said about someone else, and all of this BS about how we better be nice and positive all the time lest it make one of our recruits or current players sad, I'm done with this forum.

Have fun in make-believe land. I'm sure if we are even more nice here than we have been, it will have a major positive impact on our recruiting efforts. I'll be the first one to come back and give you all a virtual high five when we sign a five star recruit because he tweeted that he likes the positivity of our online hoops board and that made his decision easy.
 
lol. you just refuse to get it. nobody is saying it should be all rainbows. but it's been hypothesized that certain kinds of negative comments on message boards can negatively impact the team and recruiting. some counter that this stuff NEVER impacts a kid. so Ulla posted an example showing it actually can. and my bet is that it happens far more often, but that kids doesn't go public with their full thought process for picking a school or for transferring. yet even with Ulla's example, some here refuse to acknowledge that boards can hurt a program and hurt a coach's efforts.
we should have a little bit more of a personal filter before typing every thought that comes to mind. that's all.
 
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Clearly you don't get it. My point here is that I have NEVER seen anything on our already way too pleasant board that would dissuade a recruit from committing or cause a current player to leave. To think that something someone has already said here would make someone leave or not come here in the first place is the acme of ridiculousness.

To say or to even insinuate that we somehow need to "clean up our act" lest we chase a recruit or a player away is preposterous. Go read the forums of the programs that recruit at the highest level. You guys have a massively overinflated sense of your own importance. Adios!
 
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97spiderfan said:
my suggestion on how to make the board more positive, win more. That will probably also attract better recruits and lessen the chance of players transferring.
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Exactly, beat RPI and JMU and watch the positive attitudes go through the roof.
 
Spiderman, your assignment is to go on 6 different message boards (your choice but at least 2 A10), read their threads during and after a loss, then report back. I have done this.

Keefusb, never thought I would say this to another man, but please don't go......
 
Let's see a kid looking at a school and a coaching staff as well, having a tough time making the decision. I think he/she might be impacted by fire the coach, and the coach cannot do his job threads. But in case you don't recognize it right away those threads were left up. As I've said, I prefer to err on the side of being conservative, because I support the University.

Sorry if you disagree, but that's your right.
 
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I guess that is possible, but just because something is deemed to be negative (also known as realistic), doesn't mean it shouldn't be said. I've been here for 7 years, we don't crucify anyone except each other. We didn't even crucify our backup running back when he got arrested for 3lbs of weed. If everyone always agreed with everything I would have been gone 6 years ago.
FWIW Fan1, I personally think you do a damn good job moderating, I sure wouldn't want the job.
 
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SpiderRick said:
I guess that is possible, but just because something is deemed to be negative (also known as realistic), doesn't mean it shouldn't be said. I've been here for 7 years, we don't crucify anyone except each other. We didn't even crucify our backup running back when he got arrested for 3lbs of weed. If everyone always agreed with everything I would have been gone 6 years ago.
FWIW Fan1, I personally think you do a damn good job moderating, I sure wouldn't want the job.
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Negative and realistic are not synonyms.
 
Can the moderator(s) provide any details on site traffic? Is it up, down, holding steady? How many site visits per day?
 
fan2011 said:
Negative and realistic are not synonyms.
Click to expand...

Yes, everything is not always black, and it's not always white. It's generally in between, of course, a lesson we have all probably taught to our kids at different points. But, the point is, the constant applause for mediocrity is grating on a number of our nerves (probably the last one in some cases!), and we don't want to accept it.
 
I think calling it applause for mediocrity is a mischaracterization. Maybe "defense of slightly above midline."

I'm a known offender in this regard, not because I desire mediocrity, but because I worry about other failed coaching experiments. Making a bad choice (or repeatedly bad choices) can significantly set back a program.

I suspect that the majority of people who are passionate enough about spider bball to post here are sickened to see our program fail to consistently make the postseason but that doesn't translate to certainty that blowing things up is a better answer. (Note: it could be, I'm not there yet.)
 
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Fair enough. I can say that I am probably about where you are, too. I don't much like the direction we are trending, however!
 
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