Rotation when Dji Bailey returns from injury

[plydogg]

This morning I was wondering what type of role we can expect Dji to have when he returns from injury. I don’t know much of the specifics but it sounds like his original 5-7 week timetable would have him back somewhere between Jan 22 - Feb 5. If anybody knows any update timeframe or if I’m just flat out wrong (wouldn’t be the first or last time) let me know.

Right now that date range means we could play anywhere between 4-8 more games until he’s back, and then it may be another few games until he’s back to game speed/close to 100%.

Before his injury (10 games) he was playing 12.6 minutes per game. In those same games Randolph played 12.0 minutes per game. I’m the 6 games since Randolph has played 12.7 minutes per game, but he also only has 14 total minutes the past two games.

So who got Dji’s minutes? These mpg totals are minutes in the first 10 games followed by minutes in the next 6 games

Nelson went from 31.1 mpg to 29.5 (but @ Mason was on outlier because of foul trouble)

Goose went from 27 mpg to 29.8

Roche went from 21.4 mpg to 19.5

Bigelow went from 23.6 mpg to 20.2

Burton went from 35.1 mpg to 37.4

Quinn went from 21.2 mpg to 20.4 mpg

Grace went from 25 mpg (in only 6 games) to 26.7 mpg

Crabtree went from 14 total minutes to 15 total minutes

Now you can take what you will from this but it looks like most of the numbers didn’t actually change once Dji got hurt. A big part of this is because Grace returned for the first game Dji missed, but now we have had 6 games with him back and the minute distribution seems to be about the same for everybody. It looks like Grace’s minutes may have ended up being evenly distributed as whoever took his place was then replaced by somebody else at their position.

My big question is, where does this leave Dji when he returns?

I don’t think Mooney is going to just cut Randolph’s minutes in half and split 6/6 between them, and if the team does start to gel and we pick up some wins it may be even harder to make changes to what (I hope) will be working. I love the energy and defensive intensity Dji brings and ultimately I think that will keep him earnings minutes each game, but with the timing of his injury I think it will be hard for him to work back to where he was pre-injury.

Any thoughts?

 

[VT4700]

This morning I was wondering what type of role we can expect Dji to have when he returns from injury. I don’t know much of the specifics but it sounds like his original 5-7 week timetable would have him back somewhere between Jan 22 - Feb 5. If anybody knows any update timeframe or if I’m just flat out wrong (wouldn’t be the first or last time) let me know.

Right now that date range means we could play anywhere between 4-8 more games until he’s back, and then it may be another few games until he’s back to game speed/close to 100%.

Before his injury (10 games) he was playing 12.6 minutes per game. In those same games Randolph played 12.0 minutes per game. I’m the 6 games since Randolph has played 12.7 minutes per game, but he also only has 14 total minutes the past two games.

So who got Dji’s minutes? These mpg totals are minutes in the first 10 games followed by minutes in the next 6 games

Nelson went from 31.1 mpg to 29.5 (but @ Mason was on outlier because of foul trouble)

Goose went from 27 mpg to 29.8

Roche went from 21.4 mpg to 19.5

Bigelow went from 23.6 mpg to 20.2

Burton went from 35.1 mpg to 37.4

Quinn went from 21.2 mpg to 20.4 mpg

Grace went from 25 mpg (in only 6 games) to 26.7 mpg

Crabtree went from 14 total minutes to 15 total minutes

Now you can take what you will from this but it looks like most of the numbers didn’t actually change once Dji got hurt. A big part of this is because Grace returned for the first game Dji missed, but now we have had 6 games with him back and the minute distribution seems to be about the same for everybody. It looks like Grace’s minutes may have ended up being evenly distributed as whoever took his place was then replaced by somebody else at their position.

My big question is, where does this leave Dji when he returns?

I don’t think Mooney is going to just cut Randolph’s minutes in half and split 6/6 between them, and if the team does start to gel and we pick up some wins it may be even harder to make changes to what (I hope) will be working. I love the energy and defensive intensity Dji brings and ultimately I think that will keep him earnings minutes each game, but with the timing of his injury I think it will be hard for him to work back to where he was pre-injury.

Any thoughts?

If I am allowed to give an honest opinion, I don't see any time for Dji when he gets back. Goose and Randolph are fine at PG when Nelson is out, and I think Dji is clearly behind all of them and Roche. Also, I think his minutes might have been ready to be cut before his injury. 2 of his last 5 games, he had games of 5 and 4 minutes. The other 3 were blow outs, which gave him more time. The bad turnovers in his last game against FDU probably put any backup PG play in question, which might have been his best chance for minutes? So, the question would be when would we need a 5th guard and 9th guy in the rotation out there, when he doesn't give us any outside shooting or much offense, and doesn't give us anything unique that the others don't have?

Allow me to say this is no different than past years when we discussed Sal's minutes and I didn't see any time for him either. But, time will tell, and a lot can happen in the next several weeks.

 

[RichmondNative]

On the Monday radio show, which I listened to but not overly closely, I believe Mooney indicated that Dji had his first practice on Monday and there was a possibility that he could be cleared to play as early as Saturday. I was kind of surprised to hear that, but apparently the healing time was on the shorter side of the range. Another interesting thing that Mooney said was that he is considering giving Burton a few minutes rest and that Roche would get those additional minutes. I guess it is easier to say than do, but it seems that the Spiders not falling apart when Burton was out in the 2nd half last game has Mooney thinking that he doesn’t have to keep Burton on the court the entire game.

Just bring that up because I don’t think anything is set in stone and so we may see more tweaking of the lineup which I think means that Dji WILL get some time and it sounded like that would be backup PG time primarily. If JayNel gets into foul trouble that would likely mean more time for Dji.

 

[Eight Legger]

I assume he'll get something close to what he was getting before he was hurt. If Nelson is having a rough game, he'll get some of those minutes. If we need some defense, he'll get some minutes.

 

[GKiller]

Hard to get back in rotation after injury when u r still unproven & had a smaller role to begin with. Esp at this point of season when rotations typically get tighter. As mentioned mins seemed to be trending down too. But if Dji returns sooner than anticipated that presumably helps. And if guys r struggling and/or other injuries occur that opens the door.

 

[CarolinaSpider]

We may really need him back for VCU for ball handling and defense

 

[fan2011]

We are going to see Dji every game. As others have said he will get more time when Nelson is struggling and get more time when we need stops. I would have loved to see if Dji could have slowed down some of the guards who have torched us in A10 play.

 

[SpiderLaw]

I believe Dji will get some time and have the ability to gradually increase minutes. Most significant comment made above is Mooney’s comment about getting a little rest… something I have commented on previously

 

[SpiderTrap]

I think we will see DJI, but I think his time and Randolph will be split. They might each get 5-6 minutes a game, no more.

 

[SouthJerseySpiderFan]

I have no idea what minutes Dji will get but can't think of another Spider that I'm rooting so hard for to succeed. I guess the initial response to plydogg's question has something to do with that. IMO just another piling on post. At least it was honest but we all know where he stands on this subject. He could easily stop but might not have any control over that. Liking stats I see the response time was only 22 minutes.

 

[spiderman]

I really like Randolph's game but I don't like him at the point. and he seems to be in that role when it's him and Goose out there.

to me Nelson and Dji are our only 2 PGs. Nelson is substantially ahead of Dji offensively. but Dji is substantially better on defense. there have been times like in the GW game where I would have LOVED to have a Goose/Dji backcourt to shut down their guards. you need offense from the frontcourt when they're together though, so like Burton/Bigelow/Quinn. actually, with a big guards like Goose and Dji we could go smaller in the frontcourt. Dji/Goose/Roche/Burton/Quinn ... I like that.

so my long winded answer is that I expect Dji to get about 10 mpg when he's ready.

 

[97spiderfan]

Based on how Mooney dealt with Dji's injury return last year and Crabtree's this year where in both instances, they had very minimal minutes upon return because once Mooney sets his 8 man rotation, it takes a lot to change things. Heck, Connor still is barely seeing the floor. I would say that Dji's minutes will be at premium.

 

[spiderman]

Connor unfortunately hasn't done much on either side of the ball to earn more time. I'd rather all of his time go to Roche and Randolph at this point. but I do think Dji is valuable defensively at the point.

 

[VT4700]

I have no idea what minutes Dji will get but can't think of another Spider that I'm rooting so hard for to succeed. I guess the initial response to plydogg's question has something to do with that. IMO just another piling on post. At least it was honest but we all know where he stands on this subject. He could easily stop but might not have any control over that. Liking stats I see the response time was only 22 minutes.

You are rooting hard for him to succeed just because I don't think he is a rotation player at this level? Shoot, I am rooting hard for him to succeed because he is a Spider, even if it would mean people on here calling me out and saying I was wrong. As for the response time, Ply made a new thread and asked for thoughts. Was I supposed to wait a certain amount of time before responding?

I could easily stop? Stop what? We have had discussions pretty much exactly like this in the past about Sal, Wilson, Crab, JJ, Woj, Yates, and plenty of other players. I remember people on here not wanting any minutes for Trey Davis and Deion Taylor. Why should this be any different, especially when Ply asked for thoughts? And, why call me out like this when I am not the only one talking about less minutes?

 

[97spiderfan]

Connor unfortunately hasn't done much on either side of the ball to earn more time. I'd rather all of his time go to Roche and Randolph at this point. but I do think Dji is valuable defensively at the point.

He hasn't really been given much of an opportunity was my point.

 

[VT4700]

Connor unfortunately hasn't done much on either side of the ball to earn more time. I'd rather all of his time go to Roche and Randolph at this point. but I do think Dji is valuable defensively at the point.

I agree about Crab, but I guess I haven’t noticed enough of a difference defensively with Dji to make me feel like you do here. I could be wrong, but I don't remember games when Dji was a stopper on defense, and I am just wondering if there is enough of a positive on that end to make up for a lack of offense. Not trying to be negative, I just can't remember who he slowed down a little with his defense in his 10 games this year. With Grace out, he played 21 minutes against Toledo and they scored 90 points. I'm not saying he is not good defensively, just don't know how valuable (using your word) his minutes would be when factored in with offensive production.

 

[SouthJerseySpiderFan]

You are rooting hard for him to succeed just because I don't think he is a rotation player at this level? Shoot, I am rooting hard for him to succeed because he is a Spider, even if it would mean people on here calling me out and saying I was wrong. As for the response time, Ply made a new thread and asked for thoughts. Was I supposed to wait a certain amount of time before responding?

I could easily stop? Stop what? We have had discussions pretty much exactly like this in the past about Sal, Wilson, Crab, JJ, Woj, Yates, and plenty of other players. I remember people on here not wanting any minutes for Trey Davis and Deion Taylor. Why should this be any different, especially when Ply asked for thoughts? And, why call me out like this when I am not the only one talking about less minutes?

LOL but first if you comprehend correctly my post I stated you only added to my rooting hard for him to succeed. You know, your constant back and forth with another poster. Maybe I missed it, as much as I can appreciate your post was there anything positive to it? Other than G I believe most were thinking half-fill not half empty. But you could be end up 100% correct so kudos to you then.

I guess Dji was the only one with bad TOs. And his time was already cut, yes correct from your numbers.. And bad PG play, true, Can't score well enough anywhere on the court, stats wise I guess true. If Mooney reads your post he might never get on the court again.

 

[8legs1dream]

should have added a trigger warning for 4700 on this one, how did I know he would be the first one to reply with some BS

 

[spiderman]

He hasn't really been given much of an opportunity was my point.

agreed, but due to the position Connor plays I don't think we need to try to get him time. Tyler's going to play a ton. and we have other wings.

I think Dji gets time because we're not getting high level play at the backup PG spot. I don't think at this point in the season we'd get Dji time at off guard playing with Nelson. we were earlier in the year, but now those off-guard minutes are filled by Roche and Randolph ... after Goose.

 

[SpiderTrap]

I think DJI will get about 5 minutes a game, and some games that might expand to 10 depending on the game flow and needs. But right now I see Nelson's minutes slowly creeping up to 34-35-36 range. If we follow the mold of Mooney teams - we need a dominant PG, and Nelson has been tabbed as that and they usually dominate minutes. This doesn't mean DJI doesn't play - but it just simply limits the available time this year. But I think next year when Goose is gone and probably Burton as well - DJI has opportunity to start or be first off the bench.

 

[SouthJerseySpiderFan]

Also, I think his minutes might have been ready to be cut before his injury. 2 of his last 5 games, he had games of 5 and 4 minutes. The other 3 were blow outs, which gave him more time.

There is probably a good reason for this but check this out. Roche had his minutes also cut in 2 of his last 5 games, 16 and 13. Also last 5 games Roche averaged 18 minutes PG. Previous 5 games averaged 22 minutes. You believe Jason's minutes cut too going forward or has the process already begun?

And with Dji those 5 games you mentioned 3 of them being blowouts he averaged 11.8 minutes. Though the 5 before that he averaged 13.8. OMG that is a substantial drop in time on the court. Wait a minute, but only 1 of the 5 averaging 13.8 was a blowout.

 

[8legs1dream]

There is probably a good reason for this but check this out. Roche had his minutes also cut in 2 of his last 5 games, 16 and 13. Also last 5 games Roche averaged 18 minutes PG. Previous 5 games averaged 22 minutes. You believe Jason's minutes cut too going forward or has the process already begun?

And with Dji those 5 games you mentioned 3 of them being blowouts he averaged 11.8 minutes. Though the 5 before that he averaged 13.8. OMG that is a substantial drop in time on the court. Wait a minute, but only 1 of the 5 averaging 13.8 was a blowout.

he looks for every opportunity to cut down Dji, it's pretty outrageous.

 

[SouthJerseySpiderFan]

he looks for every opportunity to cut down Dji, it's pretty outrageous.

Probably shouldn't have pressed post reply but just waking up and reading that hit my pissed off nerve.

 

[SpiderDad75]

On the Monday radio show, which I listened to but not overly closely, I believe Mooney indicated that Dji had his first practice on Monday and there was a possibility that he could be cleared to play as early as Saturday. I was kind of surprised to hear that, but apparently the healing time was on the shorter side of the range. Another interesting thing that Mooney said was that he is considering giving Burton a few minutes rest and that Roche would get those additional minutes. I guess it is easier to say than do, but it seems that the Spiders not falling apart when Burton was out in the 2nd half last game has Mooney thinking that he doesn’t have to keep Burton on the court the entire game.

Just bring that up because I don’t think anything is set in stone and so we may see more tweaking of the lineup which I think means that Dji WILL get some time and it sounded like that would be backup PG time primarily. If JayNel gets into foul trouble that would likely mean more time for Dji.

Things are going very well with the hand. 7 screws and a plate we worried at first but he’s young, a fast healer and there isn’t anything that prayer/God can’t do! Annnd the Dr. was amazing. 🕷️🏀

 

[SpiderDad75]

Ohhh noooo he’s had some bad TOs, yep he’s the only player with bad TOs, take his scholly…the only difference between him and some of the other starters/guards is when they turn the ball over say idk 5-6 times in a game they don’t get yanked. Our guard play has guys at 2.7 TOs, 1.0, TOs and 1.1 TOs a game. Dji played in 10 games as opposed to 16 with 1.5…but yeah he’s awful with the ball 😂 I def appreciate the support from you guys well the support that doesn’t come with back handed compliments or fake love like he’s a Spider so I want him to do well. Let’s get this W tonight!🕷️🏀

 

[spiderman]

Things are going very well with the hand. 7 screws and a plate we worried at first but he’s young, a fast healer and there isn’t anything that prayer/God can’t do! Annnd the Dr. was amazing. 🕷️🏀

do those screws and plate stay in there permanently? I know it's his off hand, but any effect on functionality? how's the pain?

 

[SpiderDad75]

do those screws and plate stay in there permanently? I know it's his off hand, but any effect on functionality? how's the pain?

Yea they stay...Thats 7 in the left hand and 5 in the right. Crazy but that's life and injuries happen. The great thing has been zero pain. Had some irritation but nothing major and didn't even take pain meds after surgery, so that's good stuff.

 

[spiderman]

The great thing has been zero pain.

that's awesome. any indication on timeframe for availability?

 

[SFspidur]

I really like a lot of what Dji brings to the table, particularly the way he gets in guys' shirts on D.

Can't dispute that he's had turnover issues though...4.8 TOs per 40 minutes while Nelson and Randolph are at 2.8 and Goose is at 1.5. Only Walz is higher at 9.3. I think if he can get that under control, it'll go a decent way toward earning more minutes.

 

[SpiderDad75]

I really like a lot of what Dji brings to the table, particularly the way he gets in guys' shirts on D.

Can't dispute that he's had turnover issues though...4.8 TOs per 40 minutes while Nelson and Randolph are at 2.8 and Goose is at 1.5. Only Walz is higher at 9.3. I think if he can get that under control, it'll go a decent way toward earning more minutes.

I agree about TOs, Staff is big on analytics. You have the per 40, +/- etc.. You can't improve those especially +/- if you're not on the court. I sincerely don't think of it as big an issue as some, but he still must protect the ball.

 

[SpiderDad75]

that's awesome. any indication on timeframe for availability?

soon I pray 😃

 

[97spiderfan]

I will say against GW, Nelson got the early yank from Mooney twice in the first half for a foul and a bad turnover. Yes, we all know Mooney gives more leeway to the starters, but I was glad to see Moon send that message to Nelson.

As for Dji, I think the short leash will still be on him, so basically he has to avoid the really bad turnovers AND also stay really aggressive out there so that he can make an impact to justify more minutes. That is tough line to walk. I hope when he returns he can do that, both for his own confidence but also to justify to Moon to let him play through a mistake or two.

 

[VT4700]

I agree about TOs, Staff is big on analytics. You have the per 40, +/- etc.. You can't improve those especially +/- if you're not on the court. I sincerely don't think of it as big an issue as some, but he still must protect the ball.

Using per 40 minutes matters here because you were comparing Nelson, at over 30 minutes a game, with Dji, at around 12 minutes a game, and used turnovers per game in your post. Of course you can improve this. How? By not turning the ball over so much. You can improve in other areas as well, regardless of minutes. The biggest thing IMO for more playing time would be just make an impact when you are out there. Negatives like turnovers, especially sloppy ones, will of course hurt a reserves chances for playing time. And, the lack of a 3 point shot is probably a factor in that if a guy comes in and buries a 3, maybe he gets another minute to see if he can get hot out there and make a few. Unless you are a big guy banging inside, you want some scoring from your reserves.

You often bring up not being on the court as an excuse for poor play, yet in 10 games this year, Dji has had games of 21, 18, 17, 15, 14, 14, and 13 minutes. So, I will again say he has had plenty of chances, and this is where you will reply and call me a clown like you did last time.

I am glad to hear he is doing well, whether you believe me or not. I 100% hope he has success, whether you believe me or not. I just feel his game, like Sal's and Wilson's most recently, might not translate to this level.

 

[SpiderDad75]

I will say against GW, Nelson got the early yank from Mooney twice in the first half for a foul and a bad turnover. Yes, we all know Mooney gives more leeway to the starters, but I was glad to see Moon send that message to Nelson.

As for Dji, I think the short leash will still be on him, so basically he has to avoid the really bad turnovers AND also stay really aggressive out there so that he can make an impact to justify more minutes. That is tough line to walk. I hope when he returns he can do that, both for his own confidence but also to justify to Moon to let him play through a mistake or two.

Agree 100%

 

[kneepadmckinney]

I will say against GW, Nelson got the early yank from Mooney twice in the first half for a foul and a bad turnover. Yes, we all know Mooney gives more leeway to the starters, but I was glad to see Moon send that message to Nelson.

As for Dji, I think the short leash will still be on him, so basically he has to avoid the really bad turnovers AND also stay really aggressive out there so that he can make an impact to justify more minutes. That is tough line to walk. I hope when he returns he can do that, both for his own confidence but also to justify to Moon to let him play through a mistake or two.

This is exactly it. There have been a couple games since Dji has been out where he definitely would have seen the floor a lot due to either foul trouble or ineffectiveness from Nelson. But, he's going to have a short leash, so it's (1) don't turn it over, (2) don't get totally abused on D, (3) don't turn it over, (4) don't turn it over, and (5) add something on offense, in that order, to keep getting and then increasing minutes.

 

[Not-A-Homer]

I'm going to throw in my .2 cents worth. Strictly eye-test opinion, all are free to disagree.

I haven't been a real strong supporter of Dji Bailey to date. It seems that he does turn it over too much. He hasn't yet shown that he can consistently score effectively either.

HOWEVER, Bailey has been on Mooney's quick hook from the beginning (maybe because of the turnovers???). When you are on the quick hook, it is hard to relax, to not play tense. Trying too hard "not to make a mistake" often causes players to make more mistakes. Knowing that you will be yanked upon any disapproving play, and small stretches of playing time, make it hard to get in a groove. Most players are not microwave type of players.

The second observation from me is that I saw a different Bailey when I saw him in person (twice) this year. I watched him closely during warm-ups and during his time on the floor. He showed a higher level of athleticism than I had noticed on tv. He also looked more physical in person, with a good leap, and quickness. He (and Randolph) stood out athletically as compared to most of the rest of the team.

Bottom line, IF he ever gets consistent seasoning (playing time), I think that he has the potential to be VERY GOOD. More so than what I would have said just by watching him on tv for 3-minutes at a time. I hope that he can keep getting up. Maybe next year will be his time to shine. I now believe that his potential up-side is higher than I realized previously.

 

[VT4700]

All good points, Homer. My one concern about upside would be scoring, especially the 3 point shot. I think nearly all college guards can shoot the 3 some. Look at our guys:

Randolph 8-16 (50%)
Goose 12-27 (44.4%)
Roche 33-77 (42.9%)
Nelson 18-63 (28.6%), but has hit some big ones, has a good stroke, and has shown he can knock them down.
Dji is 2-8 this year and 2-17 for his career. That has to be a factor as far as playing time is concerned.

 

[spiderman]

I agree it's a tough situation, Homer, but that's life if you're coming off the bench. you get small runs. and if you turn the ball over, they'll be smaller. so don't look over your shoulder. do like Randolph has done and make positive plays in your short runs. then they might get longer.

I agree Dji is very athletic. very quick laterally for a longer guy. there's upside there, but like Goose it's limited unless he creates more offense for himself or others.

 

[plydogg]

What are the assists per 40 minutes for Nelson & Dji? Since turnovers have been looked over, does anybody have those assist numbers for the two of them?

 

[spiderman]

What are the assists per 40 minutes for Nelson & Dji? Since turnovers have been looked over, does anybody have those assist numbers for the two of them?

Dji - 4.1
Nelson - 3.6

probably not enough minutes for Dji to read too much into that though.