Richmond 75 Duquesne 73 - Roche Caps Unlikely Comeback!

[mojo-spider]

one post game summary called this one a "stunner" and it sure was...usually these types of comebacks come against the Spiders and end badly...tonight Richmond made Duquesne the victim!

there were dozens of key plays in the 22 point comeback, but check out the amateur video (there was a lot of pandemonium in the stands) of the two plays that finally put away the Dukes...Jason Nelson recovers a loose ball on a busted play and gets it to Roche who had missed five threes in a row...this time nothing but net for the win...

Ha! I don't know about Roche, or you guys, but 60 years ago in my backyard I made that same shot numerous times...of course I was only being guarded by my shadow!

Then there was the dramatic defensive stop...enjoy the way Bigelow goes after and rips down the rebound...his emotion, energy and aggression along with Quinn and Burton in the second half really turned things around on both ends of the court...

not sure what this remarkable win means...you won't be successful coming back from 22 down but once every 18 years...just ask Coach Mooney, it's reportedly his biggest comeback win at UR...but right now I'm not going to worry about consistency...as they say, I'm going to enjoy the moment...we beat a competitive team for the second game in a row...that's a first for this season...

Go Spiders!

 

[SpiderTrap]

Glad we won, but this is classic "fools gold" win in my mind. We didn't play well, and didn't deserve to win really. Yes - we fought back, which is nice to see, but this is a pattern we have seen before this year and before, getting down and fighting back. It took a referee gifting us a timeout after the three as Duquesne took the ball out fast and had momentum up the court, and it also took a busted play as Burton slipped to get Roche a shot.

In my mind, this win doesn't change much for my outlook, we are still .500 team and likely will struggle on the road.

 

[ur2K]

Also got lucky that slip wasn’t called a travel

 

[LongTimeLurkerFirstTimePoster]

Glad we won, but this is classic "fools gold" win in my mind. We didn't play well, and didn't deserve to win really. Yes - we fought back, which is nice to see, but this is a pattern we have seen before this year and before, getting down and fighting back. It took a referee gifting us a timeout after the three as Duquesne took the ball out fast and had momentum up the court, and it also took a busted play as Burton slipped to get Roche a shot.

In my mind, this win doesn't change much for my outlook, we are still .500 team and likely will struggle on the road.

i really wish we had played well and lost. Who f-ing cares how its done? The other team hit 9 mostly contested 3s in a row. That doesn't even happen in practice. Interesting choice of words "fools gold" coming from you.

How about this? I will describe the same game too you.

The other team is really good, w/ some great shooters. They blitzed us-but instead of falling down 25 at half, we cut it to 15. With our best player struggling, the other guys picked up the slack and we rallied. Burton did slip, but he had the wherewithall to find JayNel, who a month ago would have panicked, but instead found Roche for the 3..

Every coach in the country calls timeout in that situation, F-Dambrot, in a month all of those same players will be sick of him and by April, they will be in the portal, if past history is any indication.

and speaking of the road. I believe for the 2nd straight block of games, the Home Teams went 7-0, so maybe it isn't a Richmond problem.

 

[SpiderAlways]

Glad we won, but this is classic "fools gold" win in my mind. We didn't play well, and didn't deserve to win really. Yes - we fought back, which is nice to see, but this is a pattern we have seen before this year and before, getting down and fighting back. It took a referee gifting us a timeout after the three as Duquesne took the ball out fast and had momentum up the court, and it also took a busted play as Burton slipped to get Roche a shot.

In my mind, this win doesn't change much for my outlook, we are still .500 team and likely will struggle on the road.

Was no gift. Replay shows Mooney calling it right by a ref when ball went in. Your analysis there is just flat out wrong

 

[SpiderTrap]

He usually does call Time in those situations, but even if you take that away. We get lucky to get a busted play with Burton falling down and Roche finally hits a 3.

Still doesn't change much - glad we won, glad Burton had a good game - his stock for NBA purposes continues to rise. Maybe we hope he wins POY in the A10 and can get drafted, that should help recruiting.

 

[Not-A-Homer]

Speaking the truth on this forum makes people upset. It is interesting that the person who gets defensive changes depending upon what is said.

The truth is that Trap is correct in the since that the final series was a poorly executed (slipping to the floor and losing control of the ball) play that the majority of time will go bad and lead to a 1-point loss. Spiders were somewhat lucky to retain possession. Had it gone the other way this would have been another loss due to poor end-game execution.

However, in this case, the Spiders recovered and kept possession. They got the ball to the right man who executed and dropped the game winner. The 2nd part of the play wasn't luck, it was well done! Taking advantage of a less than perfect play is a part of every sport.

In summary, everybody is right. Probably the case more often than we acknowledge.

 

[Eight Legger]

Best thing about last night was that we potentially identified a clutch performer. Haven't really had one consistently in end-of-game situations since KA.

 

[whampas]

Best thing about last night was that we potentially identified a clutch performer. Haven't really had one consistently in end-of-game situations since KA.

During his post game interview with Beckwith, I believe, he came across as a stone cold sniper. All he wanted to talk about were the shots he missed. Got to love the demeanor.

 

[SpiderTrap]

I like Roche - he is our best shooter in some time. But he is 3-13 so far in A10 play from 3. Every team needs a sniper like him, but we have to be willing to accept there will be nights where he goes 4-6 from deep and gets us 14 points and looks awesome. Then there will be nights he goes 1-6 or 0-3. Last night he made the one that counted, which is great because we got the W. But if our team continues to play like they did as a whole - they will have multiple opportunities to beat that 22 point deficit comeback.

 

[SpiderVol]

One thing I’ve noticed with Roche is he gets put in a bad spot more than any other player on the team at the end of the shot clock. Which is normal for the teams best outside shooter. But it’s really noticeable with this team.

He was 1 of 6 (really 2 of 7 but 1 was overturned bc it was too late) from 3 last night, but he was forced to take at least 4 threes in the last sec of the shot clock after several players passed on better looks (Grace twice and Burton once from what I can remember).

The 4th was a designed play for him to inbound to Grace and then pop into the corner to get the ball back and a screen from Grace. Unfortunately Grace didn’t give him much of a screen and it was more contested than it should have been.

He made 1 of those 4, but it didn’t count after the review. And none of those were his game winning shot, which was also near the end of the shot/game clock.

His shot selection is forced by his teammates quite a bit of the time because they are looking for him to bail them out with a tough 3, instead of a shot clock violation.

I’ve noticed this in several games this year. His shooting % would be significantly higher if he wasn’t consistently put in these bad situations. A lot of times it’s a last sec pass from Grace too who has a decent look for his own shot.

 

[VT4700]

Speaking the truth on this forum makes people upset. It is interesting that the person who gets defensive changes depending upon what is said.

The truth is that Trap is correct in the since that the final series was a poorly executed (slipping to the floor and losing control of the ball) play that the majority of time will go bad and lead to a 1-point loss. Spiders were somewhat lucky to retain possession. Had it gone the other way this would have been another loss due to poor end-game execution.

However, in this case, the Spiders recovered and kept possession. They got the ball to the right man who executed and dropped the game winner. The 2nd part of the play wasn't luck, it was well done! Taking advantage of a less than perfect play is a part of every sport.

In summary, everybody is right. Probably the case more often than we acknowledge.

Well, allow me to counter this a little bit. Speaking the truth is fine, and I don't think anyone would disagree with that. But, if after an unreal comeback in front of a sold out arena with the players enjoying and celebrating such a great win, showing great emotion that so many on here complain about not seeing enough, we will just have to greatly disagree if you have no issues with comments like:

"this is classic "fools gold" win in my mind".
"We didn't play well, and didn't deserve to win really".
"It took a referee gifting us a timeout after the three".
"and it also took a busted play as Burton slipped to get Roche a shot".
"we are still .500 team and likely will struggle on the road".

You say trap was correct about the final play being poorly executed. Why? How was it poorly executed? Your comments make it sound like we wanted him to trip, and then "got lucky" after he slipped. I know you don't mean that, but if things had not worked out, how you could blame anyone or anything if someone slips? It certainly looked like a well executed play to me. Looking at the defense, where he got the ball and his momentum, Tyler is going to drive and either score at the rim or get fouled if he doesn't slip. This is the type of play many on here have asked for in late game situations, then we do this play, and people still get upset about the play???

And, after the slip, I don't see how we could have executed anything any better. It was pretty much perfection from the moment Tyler slipped. Tyler had the presence to not travel, to find Nelson, who then had the presence to find Roach, who had the presence to be ready for any pass at the 3 point line.

I mean, my goodness, sorry the poster was so miserable about one of our best comebacks ever. You can say everyone was right and all that, but wow, seems a little much to have so many negative comments after such a great win. But, unfortunately, also not surprising.

 

[VT4700]

Every team needs a sniper like him, but we have to be willing to accept there will be nights where he goes 4-6 from deep and gets us 14 points and looks awesome. Then there will be nights he goes 1-6 or 0-3.

Yep. Just like every good 3 point shooter out there. I certainly don't expect a guy to go 4-6 from 3 every night and shoot 67% from 3 for the year.

 

[Wood Hall]

If the team that erased a 22-point deficit doesn't deserve to win, then the team that blew a 22-point lead certainly doesn't.

The team that wins deserves to win. Because it made enough plays to win.

 

[VT4700]

One thing I’ve noticed with Roche is he gets put in a bad spot more than any other player on the team at the end of the shot clock. Which is normal for the teams best outside shooter. But it’s really noticeable with this team.

I agree this is normal for most teams. I have noticed it a few times with Roche, but I would rather have him shooting a tough 3 at the end of the clock than a crazy, forced shot from someone else. Roche has a quick release, doesn't need a lot of room to get off his shots, and has shown he can knock them down in this situation. This reminds me of Blake, who also took a lot of shots against the clock, which hurt his shooting percentage some, but he could create his own shot, and also made more than enough of them to make him our best option in this situation.

 

[VT4700]

If the team that erased a 22-point deficit doesn't deserve to win, then the team that blew a 22-point lead certainly doesn't.

The team that wins deserves to win. Because it made enough plays to win.

Exactly. Why be upset with the 47-25 run against you, and not appreciate the 50-26 run for you? Seems strange to say the early run was more important than the run that wins the game for you. And, funny, those that say we didn't "deserve" to win because of the hole we were in would never say we "deserved" to win any of the games where we gave up a lead. Once again, a no win situation and our team and coaches will get crapped on by some on here win or lose, and no matter how we win or lose.

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

As said in the other thread, Roche was basically 1 second and a few inches from being 4-9 from 3. Late pass from Grace so one came after shot clock expired (make), one came as a timeout was called (make) and his 2 pointer was essentially a 3 point attempt where he stepped on the line. So 1-6 is the official stat but the overall shooting was consistent with his average, just unlucky in 2 spots to not have his shots count and can't step on the line in the 3rd.

Similarly, you can give Quinn credit for the 2 FTs he made early 2nd half, but Tyler earned them by drawing the foul. So both their stat lines are a bit off from the actual action of the game in my book.

EDIT - btw love the video from the OP.Fan reactions are terrific. Broadcast didn't show it as much, so this was great to see.

 

[SpiderTrap]

Yep. Just like every good 3 point shooter out there. I certainly don't expect a guy to go 4-6 from 3 every night and shoot 67% from 3 for the year.

Neither do I - but right now, statistically and its a small sample he is shooting 3-13 from 3 in A10 games. And I expect A10 teams to do a better job guarding him simply because they are familiar with our offense and league scouting reports are usually more in depth.

Again - its early, and I usually don't like to bring these up before about 5-6 game stretches, so if he is still shooting less than 30% when we enter the VCU game, then we should be concerned. Right now - just someting to keep an eye on.

 

[VT4700]

Roche did a great job sliding a few steps to the left to have a little more room before getting the pass from Nelson. He was at the top of the key and as Tyler slid to the floor a couple guys moved that way toward Tyler and Nelson, so a really smart play by Roche to slide left to get a better look. Also, I like how he was clapping for the ball, letting Nelson know he was ready. Pressure shot down 1, but he wanted the shot there. I love that!

 

[97spiderfan]

A. You create you own luck. Was the last play lucky, yeah, probably, but we fought back from 22 down to create that lucky situation. Credit our guys for making that comeback and making the play.
B. If we are down a bucket with the game on the line, the shot I am trying to get, every single time is an open 3 for Roche. No offense to Tyler who is playing awesome, but Roche's stroke is so pure, I'd be happy to live or die on an open look for him. Plus, the entire world is looking for Tyler to have the ball in that situation, so we should use that to our advantage.

 

[urmite]

A. You create you own luck. Was the last play lucky, yeah, probably, but we fought back from 22 down to create that lucky situation. Credit our guys for making that comeback and making the play.
B. If we are down a bucket with the game on the line, the shot I am trying to get, every single time is an open 3 for Roche. No offense to Tyler who is playing awesome, but Roche's stroke is so pure, I'd be happy to live or die on an open look for him. Plus, the entire world is looking for Tyler to have the ball in that situation, so we should use that to our advantage.

Down 2, I agree. Down 1, I'd be ok with Tyler driving to score and/or get fouled.

 

[VT4700]

Chances are Roche won't have an open look with the game on the line. I hear you and still have no issue if he is the guy taking the shot, but I want Tyler with the ball, especially if we are tied or down 1 because any bucket wins the game. His ability to drive, to finish in traffic or get fouled, to elevate and even dunk over a guy, or pull up mid range makes him the guy I want. And, if that isn't there, and teams play off him a little, Tyler can still make the 3. Or, pass if double teamed, maybe even to Roche for the open look.

 

[97spiderfan]

Chances are Roche won't have an open look with the game on the line. I hear you and still have no issue if he is the guy taking the shot, but I want Tyler with the ball, especially if we are tied or down 1 because any bucket wins the game. His ability to drive, to finish in traffic or get fouled, to elevate and even dunk over a guy, or pull up mid range makes him the guy I want. And, if that isn't there, and teams play off him a little, Tyler can still make the 3. Or, pass if double teamed, maybe even to Roche for the open look.

Has Tyler won a game on a last minute shot for us? I'm asking. I don't know that answer. What I do know is that Roche has.

And yeah, Tyler probably needs to be involved, cause Roche isn't creating his own shot.

 

[VT4700]

Has Tyler won a game on a last minute shot for us? I'm asking. I don't know that answer. What I do know is that Roche has.

And yeah, Tyler probably needs to be involved, cause Roche isn't creating his own shot.

I hear you, but other than W&M, I can't think of too many game winning opportunities Tyler has had. If it doesn't work a few times, and looks to be a low percentage play, maybe look at something else, but for now, I want Tyler with the ball. He has added finishing at the rim to his game, and will often get fouled. He got those 2 late AND 1s against Davidson last year, and seems to have carried that over to this year where he is driving to the basket and finishing a lot more, even in traffic. But, if Roche has a good look for a last shot, I am all for that too.

 

[gcarter52]

Glad we won, but this is classic "fools gold" win in my mind. We didn't play well, and didn't deserve to win really. Yes - we fought back, which is nice to see, but this is a pattern we have seen before this year and before, getting down and fighting back. It took a referee gifting us a timeout after the three as Duquesne took the ball out fast and had momentum up the court, and it also took a busted play as Burton slipped to get Roche a shot.

In my mind, this win doesn't change much for my outlook, we are still .500 team and likely will struggle on the road.

To each their own, I appreciate how far we have come. There was no quit in our team, go Spiders!

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

If Tyler is the guy the play is called for, I absolutely want Bigelow - far and away our best offensive rebounder/athlete combo - in the game crashing the glass hard. And I like Grace over Quinn in the game bc Grace has to be guarded out at the 3 point line, whereas Quinn's guy will clog the lane. So endgame lineup of Nelson, Roche, Tyler, Bigelow, Grace on offense.

From what both Moon and Roche said in the postgame, Roche was the decoy to set up the action for Tyler, which fine, though it was not any action that forced DUQ to try and double Roche or anything like that, just an initial misdirection.

Off topic but semi-related was another terrible end of 1st half possession where the play was just let Nelson go 1 vs everyone. I like him 10x better as the option getting the ball via a pass when his man hedges off or the defense is in disarray (ie, 2nd or 3rd option.) When his man and the bigs all know he's driving, he hasn't been able to get any clean looks. Would much prefer if the plan is to push the ball upcourt and the dribbler is the go man, to let Tyler bring it up in those spots and be the guy who makes the move.

 

[Not-A-Homer]

Well, allow me to counter this a little bit. Speaking the truth is fine, and I don't think anyone would disagree with that. But, if after an unreal comeback in front of a sold out arena with the players enjoying and celebrating such a great win, showing great emotion that so many on here complain about not seeing enough, we will just have to greatly disagree if you have no issues with comments like:

"this is classic "fools gold" win in my mind".
"We didn't play well, and didn't deserve to win really".
"It took a referee gifting us a timeout after the three".
"and it also took a busted play as Burton slipped to get Roche a shot".
"we are still .500 team and likely will struggle on the road".

You say trap was correct about the final play being poorly executed. Why? How was it poorly executed? Your comments make it sound like we wanted him to trip, and then "got lucky" after he slipped. I know you don't mean that, but if things had not worked out, how you could blame anyone or anything if someone slips? It certainly looked like a well executed play to me. Looking at the defense, where he got the ball and his momentum, Tyler is going to drive and either score at the rim or get fouled if he doesn't slip. This is the type of play many on here have asked for in late game situations, then we do this play, and people still get upset about the play???

And, after the slip, I don't see how we could have executed anything any better. It was pretty much perfection from the moment Tyler slipped. Tyler had the presence to not travel, to find Nelson, who then had the presence to find Roach, who had the presence to be ready for any pass at the 3 point line.

I mean, my goodness, sorry the poster was so miserable about one of our best comebacks ever. You can say everyone was right and all that, but wow, seems a little much to have so many negative comments after such a great win. But, unfortunately, also not surprising.

We mostly agree. I have no interest in splitting hairs, just answering your question. The play was poorly executed because it didn't work out as it was supposed to. Burton was to get the shot one-on-one, win it or lose. He went down, thus the way it was meant to happen went out the window. Had a turnover resulted and Duquesne won, the loss would have been a failure to execute the plan on the final possession.

As stated in my original post, the second half of the play was well done. Nelson and Roche took advantage of the less than perfect situation for the win. Certainly not as planned, but part of the game. Turned into "just the way I drew it up." 👍