Recruiting

[SpiderTrap]

Does our current issues, which is basically a lack of depth (which has been an issue for last few years during our NCAA drought) as well as a significant drop off from our key players to our role players (also - another major issue during our drought years) - boil down to recruiting. Even if Mooney couldn't coach at all - you would at least say, we got the players - but I don't think you can say that.

But hasn't recruiting always been the issue at UR. Beilein - he won at UR, but it was the CAA, and he had some questionable guys leave (Cunningham, Stephens) and he relied on transfers from bigger schools (Greg Stevenson - Penn State and Kinte Smith - GW) -that was his formula and it worked. But he also left after one good run to the finals in 1 year in the A10 - maybe he saw something we didn't see at the time - competing at that level would be extremely difficult year in and year out under the current admissions settings. Then Wainwright comes in - he starts bringing in kids that are not the normal UR recruits, but are probably higher rated than we normally see - guys like Merritt who was close to top 100 and then tried to get in Vassallo, another highly recruited player. But he quickly found out UR was not interested in this change and left for Depaul. Now - we have Mooney, who gets really 2 good years of recruiting with Gonzo, Geriot, Anderson, Harper - and adds good role players in Butler, Martel, Brothers, Smith - but since then - never able to replicate that success. Was it just luck? I just don't see this team even with them returning next year being very good because after our top 3 - the drop off in talent is so singificant. And that sounds like a recruiting more than anything.

 

[spider23]

Yes, Mooney has not been recruiting well.

 

[MolivaManiac]

Richmond will never have a top recruiting class in the A10. The idea here is that we should have a roster of 6th or 7th place talent and be able to coach it up to top of the table results because we coach X and O and have smart, tough players.

The problem is we are recruiting 13th or 14th place talent and coaching it up to 8th or 9th place results.

Mooney needs to go. Now.

 

[ur2K]

Mooney’s a terrible GM. We claim to run systems then don’t recruit players that can excel in those systems.

 

[spider23]

Mooney’s a terrible GM. We claim to run systems then don’t recruit players that can excel in those systems.

Very very good point, we are supposed to be able to recruit players that can fit this "system ", but we seen ti just end up taking whoever we can get.

 

[WebSpinner]

have to remember, other than some 20 win, non-champion, thus non-dancing, teams in the 50s, UR had never done anything in basketball, no postseason at all, until DT was named interim coach in what 82 or 83? before he took over, we were not competing in the ECAC SOUTH very well either. he did take us to the top of the caa because they played as a team, they played D, never the best offensive teams. knew guys on that staff and they struggled recruiting as well, a constant forever but the right guy can compete but even then not easy. think if you can play D, you can hang with a lot of teams but if you do not or cannot play really good D, a crap shoot depending on how you shoot the ball on field goals, threes and from the line. recall that DT said that the last segment of defense is rebounding. the fact that our dancing ticket has not been punched much after DT, shows that we probably have to get very lucky to perform to the level that most of us want.

 

[urfan1]

Dick Tarrant did not recruit the top talent in the CAA, he was a great teacher of the game, a decent motivator but the best bench coach we have ever had

 

[SpiderTrap]

That brings up another point - Mooney runs a system. It is not like any other team in the A10. Beilein ran a system - which I think is good when your in a true mid-major league and trying to upset bigger and better teams. It allows you to surprise and beat them in a 1 game scenario, which he had much success with UR and WVU. Then at Michigan - he started with his system, but if you watch them now - they still run bits and pieces of it, but he really relies now on his players and their talent. As you should - when your in the Big Ten and recruiting top 100 and even top 50 players and sending guys to the NBA. Wainwright - his system was simple. Get 1-2 guys who can score on offense and get them the ball. But also recruit guys who are athletic and bruisers and who will defend. The game might be ugly at times - but it was a gritty type of basketball. No smoke and mirrors. Point being - in the A10, should you be running a "system" like this. Because it relies so much on getting the right fit, that when you don't - you have no shot.

 

[WebSpinner]

you are correct, DT did not have the best talent in the league yet he won his share of titles and danced a tad. it can be done but is tough, very tough.

 

[SpiderRick]

Danced a tad? 9 postseason appearances in 12 years I think is more than a tad

 

[Captain Anderson]

Dick Tarrant did not recruit the top talent in the CAA, he was a great teacher of the game, a decent motivator but the best bench coach we have ever had

Yes and I can tell you from going to his Summer camps for several years that DT recruited and coached toughness. Tarrant’s teams were not full of the most talent but they were physical guys that would not back down and would get in your face defensively.

 

[SpiderTrap]

But you also have to remember with Tarrant is that in a league like the CAA and ECAC that you really only needed 1-2 really good players. Then fill in the rest with tough minded guys like Tarrant did and you got a winning formula for the league and any mid-major at the time (some even still today). And once your in the NCAA tourney with a 1 game scenario, anything can happen.
I give Tarrant credit - he was able to get those 1-2 stud players and surround them with the right pieces, and more importantly - develop those other pieces as well.

In Mooney's case - you not only need probably 3 good players (which we have) - but you need about 3-4 solid role players around them as well - which is what we don't have. And it is even hard to tell if our big 3 is really that good or are they a product of quantiity. Meaning - they are going to put up good numbers because no one else on the team is capable. Good way to think of it would be - where would these 3 fit into an NCAA team with Anderson, Harper, Geriot. Would they be competing with them and maybe stealing minutes they are so good - or simply pushed down to role players.

 

[ur2K]

If Gilly can’t go, let’s see how that recruiting has worked out for depth. Do we start a senior walk-on?

 

[nathanw19]

Anderson is the best player I’ve seen at Richmond (I didn’t see Newman). So while I believe gilyard is our best player right now, he isn’t taking minutes from KA. Sherod rides the pine while Harper plays. Geriot and Golden split time.

 

[Eight Legger]

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If Gilly can’t go, let’s see how that recruiting has worked out for depth. Do we start a senior walk-on?

Oddo can run our odd O.

 

[I-M-UR]

Oddo can run our odd O.

And score 20? That’s a big request

 

[Spider2020]

If gilyard’s out Oddo probably plays 20 minutes. Mooney will make the smart choice to play the senior walk on over the freshman (Andre) who needs the time to develop. Especially when the season is already in the toilet

 

[Spider2020]

I also think the “admissions is holding Mooney back” narrative is overplayed. Other than Bernard a few years back, when has Mooney ever landed a good player who admissions then denied? Mooney doesn’t land much top talent, that’s the issue.

 

[MrTbone]

If gilyard’s out Oddo probably plays 20 minutes. Mooney will make the smart choice to play the senior walk on over the freshman (Andre) who needs the time to develop. Especially when the season is already in the toilet

If the season is already in the toilet, then play the freshman. He won’t develop faster on the bench.

 

[Spider2020]

If the season is already in the toilet, then play the freshman. He won’t develop faster on the bench.

Agree. My comment was sarcastic

 

[Not-A-Homer]

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If Gilly can’t go, let’s see how that recruiting has worked out for depth. Do we start a senior walk-on?

Didn't Gilyard have a wrap around his knee during the game? I didn't look that closely, maybe it was a wrap around his thigh.

Either way, I did not know that a wrap like that was good for a groin strain. I guess that I have a lot to learn.

 

[spiderstudent17]

If Gilyard is limited this game, I would love to see more of Andre. I'm sure Wojcik will take over PG duties more, but like others have noted, it's better to develop Andre more then it is to give our senior walk-on that playing time, in my opinion.

 

[iSpider]

Didn't Gilyard have a wrap around his knee during the game? I didn't look that closely, maybe it was a wrap around his thigh.

Either way, I did not know that a wrap like that was good for a groin strain. I guess that I have a lot to learn.

As I recall, his wrap covered most of his leg from the thigh to just above the ankle.

 

[GKiller]

I also think the “admissions is holding Mooney back” narrative is overplayed. Other than Bernard a few years back, when has Mooney ever landed a good player who admissions then denied? Mooney doesn’t land much top talent, that’s the issue.

JJ Avila, Brad Burgess, at least 1 more that is slipping my mind. Vassallo was ole jer era. It happens. Bernard was just practicing with us which made it unusual. I assume 2020 may be a reference to your graduation year so u probably weren't around for those others but most of us were. Personally I think it likely prevented 1 more NCAA appearance by Mooney team. I'm very ready for change and results are expected regardless but to be fair it wasn't just Bernard. We need a little more leeway.

 

[urmite]

JJ Avila, Brad Burgess, at least 1 more that is slipping my mind. Vassallo was ole jer era. It happens. Bernard was just practicing with us which made it unusual. I assume 2020 may be a reference to your graduation year so u probably weren't around for those others but most of us were. Personally I think it likely prevented 1 more NCAA appearance by Mooney team. I'm very ready for change and results are expected regardless but to be fair it wasn't just Bernard. We need a little more leeway.

Godwin?

 

[GKiller]

Godwin?

Yep thanks

 

[urfan1]

and others that never became public -- not to mention the ones we backed away from

 

[SpiderK]

Anderson is the best player I’ve seen at Richmond (I didn’t see Newman). So while I believe gilyard is our best player right now, he isn’t taking minutes from KA. Sherod rides the pine while Harper plays. Geriot and Golden split time.

Nat, Newman is the best we have ever had by far. You might want to look at Sherod’s stats compared to Harper at this same point in their careers. Harper was a frustrating non factor his first 2 years and really did very little until his last year. Nick is much further along in almost all stats. If Jacob can develop a tear drop shot, he will be as good as we can possibly hope for. Golden will be much better over the next 3 years than Geriot ever was. Problem is that is all we have. Those teams had 7 or 8 A-10 players. We now have 3 1/2.

 

[Marley13]

Injury really hurt Geriot. Double digit scorer his first two years but never again. Don’t think he would have been better than Golden but he would have been up there.

 

[spider23]

Here comes the Mooney has been hamstrung by the administration guys again. If it was the case then Mooney didn't fight hard enough. I call BS on this. If the controls are in place to help these guys be successful in class, Mooney should have fought harder.

 

[nathanw19]

Nat, Newman is the best we have ever had by far. You might want to look at Sherod’s stats compared to Harper at this same point in their careers. Harper was a frustrating non factor his first 2 years and really did very little until his last year. Nick is much further along in almost all stats. If Jacob can develop a tear drop shot, he will be as good as we can possibly hope for. Golden will be much better over the next 3 years than Geriot ever was. Problem is that is all we have. Those teams had 7 or 8 A-10 players. We now have 3 1/2.

Spi, I have no doubts about Newman. But doesn’t change that KA is the best I’ve seen.

As for nick v Harp, we were talking the tourney teams. So Harper on those teams is light years ahead of where nick is. But yes, Nick is light years ahead of Harp’s first 2 years.

As for Grant, I think the jury is still out. I hope he can be, but Geriot was a better shooter and as good of/better passer. Grant gets to the rim better, but his finishing/shooting isn’t good enough yet for me to be certain he will be much better.

 

[nathanw19]

Random recruiting thought:

I would like Daon Merritt to no longer be listed as our highest rated recruit of all time (according to 247). It makes me cringe every time...

 

[spider23]

https://www.vuhoops.com/villanova-basketball/2018/12/16/18143451/painter-finds-new-home-at-delaware

Would have been nice to grab this guy on the rebound. Another area we seem to be failures. This is just one case, but we have had some guys that went HM, that would have worked out nicely here I think - but Moon never comes through. OK, yes we got Marshall Wood, after he announced he quit basketball.

Not saying every one is going to be great, but just another area we have failed: transfers and especially guys we just missed on that transfer. OK, we got Cline and he worked out. 1. And Francis looks like he should.

 

[spider23]

And I agree about Merritt. He was overrated, if I recall - it was only one recruiting service - HoopScoop or hoopgroup, that was run by a very questionable talent evaluator and hype man.

 

[spiderstudent17]

Do you think we're actively looking for someone in the class of 2019 to fill up the scholarship we got for Schneider transferring? I would rather we fill it up with another player to balance out the classes more evenly (if it is a quality recruit) than to give it to a transfer

 

[SpiderPride]

Dick Tarrant did not recruit the top talent in the CAA, he was a great teacher of the game, a decent motivator but the best bench coach we have ever had

That's a really good point. I distinctly remember him having his back to the game half the time and kneeling down while talking to his players on the bench. Made a big impression.