PG is the key to this season

VT4700

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I think we have a pretty good idea of what most of the guys we expect in the rotation will bring this year. We have a good idea of what Goose, Grace, and Crabtree will give us. We know Burton is a superstar, all A-10, possible POY guy. We even have a good idea of what the transfers will bring. Quinn gives us size, scoring and rebounding down low, and Roche gives us solid 3 point shooting. Bigelow seems versatile and should give us some 3s, some defense, and some rebounding. We don't know a lot about Walz, Randolph, Dread, or Noyes, but I don't think we are counting on huge production from them this year.

So, that leaves the PG spot. We can't expect our point guards to replace Jacob's production this season. But, we do need good, solid point guard play. The position is just too important to try to win without it. We don't need greatness at the PG spot every game. Both Nelson and Dji are young and there is time to get to greatness. Just be good enough to make a difference. Be good enough so we can look at the PG spot and say we have a good PG. Do that, and we will be really really good this coming year.
 

spiderman

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I think we have a pretty good idea of what most of the guys we expect in the rotation will bring this year. We have a good idea of what Goose, Grace, and Crabtree will give us.
I personally don't know exactly what to expect from Goose and Grace. at least I hope I don't.
they're two guys many of you have pencilled in as starters and major minutes guys, who both are historically 4 ppg guys (granted in supporting roles).

I need both to shoot a heck of a lot better then they have if they're to retain their expected roles. a lot is expected from their position since we're starting a new PG and we have a new center moving up from the Patriot League.
 

VT4700

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I personally don't know exactly what to expect from Goose and Grace. at least I hope I don't.
they're two guys many of you have pencilled in as starters and major minutes guys, who both are historically 4 ppg guys (granted in supporting roles).

I need both to shoot a heck of a lot better then they have if they're to retain their expected roles. a lot is expected from their position since we're starting a new PG and we have a new center moving up from the Patriot League.
Interesting take. You talk about them like they are 2nd year guys who rarely played in year one. They are each now in their 5th year. You haven't seen them enough to know what type of player they are, and what they will likely give us this year? Goose will definitely get major minutes, while Grace's minutes I could see fluctuating between around 20 to the mid 20s or more depending on match ups and how each game is going. We don't need either of them to be big time double digit scorers for us, and I certainly have a good idea of what they can and can't do when out there. I am surprised you don't.
 

POMSpidur

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Interesting take. You talk about them like they are 2nd year guys who rarely played in year one. They are each now in their 5th year. You haven't seen them enough to know what type of player they are, and what they will likely give us this year? Goose will definitely get major minutes, while Grace's minutes I could see fluctuating between around 20 to the mid 20s or more depending on match ups and how each game is going. We don't need either of them to be big time double digit scorers for us, and I certainly have a good idea of what they can and can't do when out there. I am surprised you don't.
If they’re not giving us double digits…. Who is scoring the ball?!?!
 
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VT4700

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To me a point guard is like a football QB. You can win some if they can manage the game. You can win a lot more if they can WIN the game (or get the ball to the guy(s) that can).

I hope by the end of the season, whoever it is can win the game, but I expect at the beginning, their job will be to manage it.
You mentioned you can win a lot if a PG either wins the game himself or gets the ball to the guys who can. What else is there? If you don't do either one, you should not be out there. I'm not sure I follow you. What is the difference between managing the game and getting the ball to the guys who can win the game? Is getting the ball to the right guys managing the game or winning the game? I think you called that winning, but not sure because of how you talked about managing. Using your QB comparison, if you have talent around you, you can win a lot by managing the game, limiting turnovers, and making enough positive plays. Same with a PG who has talent around him: manage the game, limit turnovers, and make enough positive plays.

I think we have enough talent at other positions that our PG does not need to average 13 or 14 a game, and go win games by himself. I think a PG can definitely still "win" a game for you by scoring very little. Whether you call that managing or winning does not really matter, as long as we get the W. I agree with your last part, and feel like Nelson or Dji will be much more comfortable toward the end of the year, and might score a little more as they get more confidence (if that's what you mean by winning the game for us).
 

VT4700

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If they’re not giving us double digits…. Who is scoring the ball?!?!
Tyler, Quinn, Roche, Bigelow, Nelson, Dji, and Crabtree. We lost two 13 point a game scorers in Grant and Jacob, and 15 combined points from Nate and Nick. So, we are talking 41 points. That is easily doable without Grace and Goose needing to average double figures. Quinn should be able to match Grant's 13 a game. Tyler should gain about 4 points a game, which would help offset our PG averaging less than Jacob's 13. So, 9 a game from the PG spot and we only need 15 combined from Roche, Bigelow, and Crabtree to replace the 15 from Nick and Nate. Goose and Grace will still have their double digit games, but we don't need them to average that to win.
 
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SpiderGuy

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Interesting take. You talk about them like they are 2nd year guys who rarely played in year one. They are each now in their 5th year. You haven't seen them enough to know what type of player they are, and what they will likely give us this year? Goose will definitely get major minutes, while Grace's minutes I could see fluctuating between around 20 to the mid 20s or more depending on match ups and how each game is going. We don't need either of them to be big time double digit scorers for us, and I certainly have a good idea of what they can and can't do when out there. I am surprised you don't.
I agree with most of what you said. We've seen enough of Goose & Grace to have a feel for what to expect. My gut tells me on any given night either of those guys will give us 10 or so points. Not necessarily both on the same night, but if so, that would be great. Defense is another subject, and I have no doubts about Goose's defense. Grace will need to step it up there.

We benefit if both up their games as presumed starters.
 
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POMSpidur

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Tyler, Quinn, Roche, Bigelow, Nelson, Dji, and Crabtree. We lost two 13 point a game scorers in Grant and Jacob, and 15 combined points from Nate and Nick. So, we are talking 41 points. That is easily doable without Grace and Goose needing to average double figures. Quinn should be able to match Grant's 13 a game. Tyler should gain about 4 points a game, which would help offset our PG averaging less than Jacob's 13. So, 9 a game from the PG spot and we only need 15 combined from Roche, Bigelow, and Crabtree to replace the 15 from Nick and Nate. Goose and Grace will still have their double digit games, but we don't need them to average that to win.
ONLY 15… I guess you think that’s not a lot of points? We’re losing our 3 best assists guys from last year.. we will score less. in order to win, defense is the key!
 
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Ferrum Spider

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Barring a major talent gap between the two, I feel this is gonna be the first year you see Mooney apply situational basketball at the PG position. I doubt don’t think Dji or Nelson are going to have a monopoly on PT at that position given the production needed being replaced along with having competition at the position we don’t typically see.

Both are too good to keep off the court but not good enough to keep on all the time if the matchup isn’t working that game. Typically we’ve always only had one PG at a time start the entire season but I don’t think that will be the case in 22-23. Or at the very least a lot of shared minutes.
 

VT4700

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Barring a major talent gap between the two, I feel this is gonna be the first year you see Mooney apply situational basketball at the PG position. I doubt don’t think Dji or Nelson are going to have a monopoly on PT at that position given the production needed being replaced along with having competition at the position we don’t typically see.

Both are too good to keep off the court but not good enough to keep on all the time if the matchup isn’t working that game. Typically we’ve always only had one PG at a time start the entire season but I don’t think that will be the case in 22-23. Or at the very least a lot of shared minutes.
You could be right, but I'm not sure we know exactly how good either one of them is yet. Dji has a total of 191 minutes, I don't think any at PG for us, and Nelson hasn't played yet. Just another reason why I think this position will be the key for us. Looks like we have talent there, but right now it is unproven talent. I hope both are very good, but it is possible only one is, or if both are good, it is likely one is better, which means he should get a big chunk of the minutes. Unless they are dead even, I think we might be looking at a 28/12 type of split.
 
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SpiderK

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I agree with most of what you said. We've seen enough of Goose & Grace to have a feel for what to expect. My gut tells me on any given night either of those guys will give us 10 or so points. Not necessarily both on the same night, but if so, that would be great. Defense is another subject, and I have no doubts about Goose's defense. Grace will need to step it up there.

We benefit if both up their games as presumed starters.
If this new big guy is any good at all, I don’t see Grace starting. If Grace plays any defense, he will quickly get in foul trouble. He is a good asset off the bench for 15 or 20 minutes.
 

VT4700

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ONLY 15… I guess you think that’s not a lot of points? We’re losing our 3 best assists guys from last year.. we will score less. in order to win, defense is the key!
Yes, only 15. I think Roche, Bigelow, and Crabtree can give us at least that many combined points. are you saying they will give us dramatically less than that?
 
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Our three best players are Burton, Quinn and Bigelow. Goose and Nelson will round out the starting 5.
 

Section9.RowD

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Interesting back and forth. I expect us to be a better 3pt shooting time this year than last year - almost every game that we lost badly, we could hardly shoot 3s - I don't see that happening next year as much primarily due to Roche's arrival. I am more worried about defense than offense.
 

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Iteresting RVA. In regards to Bigelow, is that based on workouts with the team so far, or based on his tape from Wofford? Definitely seems like a very plausible 5. I'm sure we will see a Quinn/Grace front court for stretches - but to Section 9's point - that could be a sketchy defensive unit - not yours - but the Quinn Grace combo together. Especially in today's game with one of those guys chasing a gaurd or wing in a four out opposing offense. Would like to see Mooney go to some alternate defenses to mix things up this year. Years ago he went with the "posse" pressing unit - which got time for some of the younger guys on the team. But my recollection is that was used mostly in the early pre conference season against the Longwoods and similar teams.
 
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SpiderDad75

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Interesting take for sure RVA…I’m not going off anyones film from this point but what they look like here in wrkouts & practice. Burton is the only sure thing in your post for me. Let’s let Neal and Bigelow get some burn before we anoint them the two best behind TB.
 
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Will be first to admit if my take is incorrect, but barring no injuries, will be surprised if that's not the starting five. Really nice to be able to have this discussion given the depth -- haven't been able to do that in years prior.
 

SpiderDad75

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Will be first to admit if my take is incorrect, but barring no injuries, will be surprised if that's not the starting five. Really nice to be able to have this discussion given the depth -- haven't been able to do that in years prior.
Gotcha…not really questioning the starting 5 take just the best players. But hey it’s the off season what else we going to do 😀
 
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spiderman

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Interesting take. You talk about them like they are 2nd year guys who rarely played in year one. They are each now in their 5th year. You haven't seen them enough to know what type of player they are, and what they will likely give us this year? Goose will definitely get major minutes, while Grace's minutes I could see fluctuating between around 20 to the mid 20s or more depending on match ups and how each game is going. We don't need either of them to be big time double digit scorers for us, and I certainly have a good idea of what they can and can't do when out there. I am surprised you don't.
yes, they're in their 5th year. I do know their games. and while both are solid, I don't expect some major transformation. I think both would be tremendously valuable as guys off the bench.

I expect both around 6 ppg and 32% from 3. I hope they prove me wrong.
 
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Will be first to admit if my take is incorrect, but barring no injuries, will be surprised if that's not the starting five. Really nice to be able to have this discussion given the depth -- haven't been able to do that in years prior.
How can we keep getting this wrong???
Grace will be in the starting five — I’m tired of having to correct people on here.
 

VT4700

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yes, they're in their 5th year. I do know their games. and while both are solid, I don't expect some major transformation. I think both would be tremendously valuable as guys off the bench.

I expect both around 6 ppg and 32% from 3. I hope they prove me wrong.
I can respect your opinion here, but we can just keep disagreeing on Goose. He needs to start and play a lot. He is way too good defensively to not play a ton of minutes. If Burton didn't come back, and if we didn't get any transfers in here, I could maybe see why you would want more scoring at his spot, but with who we will have out there with him, we won't need a lot of scoring from him. The good thing there though is he is still capable of giving us some double digit games.

I am thinking Grace's minutes will vary more. A lot will depend on match ups and a lot also might depend on how well Quinn and Bigelow do. But, he is solid, and, like Goose, is very capable of providing offense. Whether he starts or not, I see him having several games with 20+ minutes for us.
 

97spiderfan

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... I love Goose but this year's team can't afford a non-shooting/defensuve two guard.
If Goose can't improve his shot in the offseason, his minutes are going to be eaten into next year. The Roche-Goose battle at the 2 is going to be super interesting. Will Goose be able to become more of an offensive threat, can Roche play D? Those two questions will determine minutes distribution at this position
 
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gcarter52

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I can respect your opinion here, but we can just keep disagreeing on Goose. He needs to start and play a lot. He is way too good defensively to not play a ton of minutes. If Burton didn't come back, and if we didn't get any transfers in here, I could maybe see why you would want more scoring at his spot, but with who we will have out there with him, we won't need a lot of scoring from him. The good thing there though is he is still capable of giving us some double digit games.

I am thinking Grace's minutes will vary more. A lot will depend on match ups and a lot also might depend on how well Quinn and Bigelow do. But, he is solid, and, like Goose, is very capable of providing offense. Whether he starts or not, I see him having several games with 20+ minutes for us.
We are putting too much emphasis on starting right now, preseason workouts and off-season practices will determine pt or reserve time.
 

97spiderfan

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Our three best players are Burton, Quinn and Bigelow. Goose and Nelson will round out the starting 5.
I hope Bigelow is one of our three best, but I can't put him there now.

I think our starting 5 to start the year is:

Nelson
Goose
Burton
Grace
Quinn

I think Roche will push to be a starter quickly though. If Bigelow pushes Grace into the back-up role that is my hope because that means Bigelow is a player and Grace can play his more natural position of center. Bigelow is going to have show that as a reserve first because I think Mooney's has Grace's back.
 

gcarter52

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I hope Bigelow is one of our three best, but I can't put him there now.

I think our starting 5 to start the year is:

Nelson
Goose
Burton
Grace
Quinn

I think Roche will push to be a starter quickly though. If Bigelow pushes Grace into the back-up role that is my hope because that means Bigelow is a player and Grace can play his more natural position of center. Bigelow is going to have show that as a reserve first because I think Mooney's has Grace's back.
Speculation/opinion is not fact!
 
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VT4700

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We are putting too much emphasis on starting right now, preseason workouts and off-season practices will determine pt or reserve time.
But, it's the off season. It's fun talking about who might be starting, and pretty cool that we have a talented enough roster where there are different possible choices.
 
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If Goose can't improve his shot in the offseason, his minutes are going to be eaten into next year. The Roche-Goose battle at the 2 is going to be super interesting. Will Goose be able to become more of an offensive threat, can Roche play D? Those two questions will determine minutes distribution at this position
The guy averaged less than 4 shots per game last year. I think his shot is fine and he will have more opportunities this year.
 

urmite

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I hope Bigelow is one of our three best, but I can't put him there now.

I think our starting 5 to start the year is:

Nelson
Goose
Burton
Grace
Quinn

I think Roche will push to be a starter quickly though. If Bigelow pushes Grace into the back-up role that is my hope because that means Bigelow is a player and Grace can play his more natural position of center. Bigelow is going to have show that as a reserve first because I think Mooney's has Grace's back.
You could easily see 4 pushing to get into your group of 5.
The 2 transfers Roche & Bigelow, and the 2 now 100% (?) Dji & Crabtree…
 

GKiller

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If Goose can't improve his shot in the offseason, his minutes are going to be eaten into next year. The Roche-Goose battle at the 2 is going to be super interesting. Will Goose be able to become more of an offensive threat, can Roche play D? Those two questions will determine minutes distribution at this position

I don't think they are competing head to head for a spot really. They r competing somewhat because there r only so many minutes available. But they'll play together and Goose will also play the 1-3 if you want to label those. Goose can certainly guard a 3 so he's valuable, & still think he'll take some spot mins at the 1.
 

spider23

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the off guard / Wing position:

You have the following competing for minutes: Goose/Burton/Crabtree/Dji/Roche/Bigelow/Randolph.

Goose and Burton are incumbents and Mooney is loyal. I really don't see any scenario in which Goose plays less than 20 min/game. Not a lot of minutes. I do realize Bigelow and Burton are going to be at the PF some but expect that Grace will play a decent amount of 4 too. Should be an interesting battle.
 

RichmondNative

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First, I am not so sure that starter means player with the most minutes on this year’s team. I could see Grace getting the start and being replaced by Quinn after 5 minutes of game time.

Second, I am less worried about starters and more concerned about rotations. I am a believer in team chemistry and I saw plenty of times last year where Mooney had guys on the court that just did not seem to mesh. I am hoping this coming season there are some better functioning combinations.

Last, I feel like we are going to see lots of players being used especially at the beginning of the season, so probably everyone will be able to point to some game where his/her prediction was true. I think not knowing is what is going to make this season more exciting than the last few.
 

SpiderGuy

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I hope Bigelow is one of our three best, but I can't put him there now.

I think our starting 5 to start the year is:

Nelson
Goose
Burton
Grace
Quinn

I think Roche will push to be a starter quickly though. If Bigelow pushes Grace into the back-up role that is my hope because that means Bigelow is a player and Grace can play his more natural position of center. Bigelow is going to have show that as a reserve first because I think Mooney's has Grace's back.
I agree with most of your post. One point - even though Grace has been primarily used as a 5, I’m not sure that is his natural position. When Mooney finally put him in alongside Grant as a 4, my observation is that this is his more comfortable and effective position. Granted that the body of work at 5 is greater than at 4, but my gut tells me that is where he’ll see more minutes this year and less as backup at 5. It’s also not a bad situation where he can play both 4 and 5.
 
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