OT: Spider05, was this you?

[Ferrum Spider]

"What our players took throughout the course of that game from [UR] students was unlike I've ever seen before,"
-Thad Matta after Xaviers 67-64 win over UR in the Robbins Center.

If I recall correctly were you not the ring leader of what I like to call the "glory years" of the Richmond Rowdies when this occurred? What can the students of today take away from that era?

This post is a little off topic, but I found myself immediately remembering this game between UR and XU after watching what happened at the end of the Michigan-MSU game. If anyone saw JOC piece today in the RTD its a solid read.

That first season in the A10 was wild. 5 game losing streak in the non conference, overshot expectations in the first season by nearly winning the A10 tourney. Remember leading halfway through the second, then West and Co just hit another level and beat us. Crazy NIT run that culminated in a sellout against Syracuse where they thumped us. Remember the future being bright then a month after the season ended Beilien unexpectedly left after Dan Dakich accepted then pulled out of the WVU job. Remember Ray Tate breaking the news to me and he was crushed. Too bad JBs son wasn't a year older, we could of had JB for another few years before he would of eventually moved on to other pastures.

 

[urmite]

2/2/2002

X with West, Sato, Chalmers, and everyone's favorite Frey

Spiders - Reggie Brown, Skrocki, Dobbins, Ungerer, Myers, Zwayer, Jonathon Collins, O'Malley
And SR Falconer now in limited minutes.

 

[GKiller]

Agree Ferrum that was an appropriate article & game to revisit by JOC given the UM-MSU stuff.

I was at the game. Postgame I find out I locked my keys in car. Double whammy I was already po'd from losing the game. But silver lining if u can call it that was I had to stick around the Robins Center waiting for AAA. Got a first hand account from downtown Reggie Brown as he was leaving the RC.

I forgot that Matta quote or maybe I never saw it...but when has any coach or player said that about our student section? had to be a first hey we'll take it.

Jim Miller was all kinds of fired up too. I think at Frey. Probably Matta but who isn't.

That was a very good Xavier team but we still really should have won that game. Overall it did overachieve, got better as year went on, also went to A10 champ game in 1st year, then couldn't solve the Cuse Zone in NIT quarters, a game we only got a home due to some conflict if I recall. One of the best RC crowds too. Hit Potter's Pub pregame & they were clearly ill prepared for that.

F Dan Dakich. Sure Beilein was going to leave eventually. But besides his son Pat, we would have had Joe Herber too, who was even a little better than Pat. Both had very nice careers on good West Va teams. UR would have been loaded for a bit.

WEST IS SOFT

 

[urmite]

The last of one tunnel, Frey's crotch...
Going 19-9 after a 3-5 start...

 

[Ferrum Spider]

Agree Ferrum that was an appropriate article & game to revisit by JOC given the UM-MSU stuff.

I was at the game. Postgame I find out I locked my keys in car. Double whammy I was already po'd from losing the game. But silver lining if u can call it that was I had to stick around the Robins Center waiting for AAA. Got a first hand account from downtown Reggie Brown as he was leaving the RC.

I forgot that Matta quote or maybe I never saw it...but when has any coach or player said that about our student section? had to be a first hey we'll take it.

Jim Miller was all kinds of fired up too. I think at Frey. Probably Matta but who isn't.

That was a very good Xavier team but we still really should have won that game. Overall it did overachieve, got better as year went on, also went to A10 champ game in 1st year, then couldn't solve the Cuse Zone in NIT quarters, a game we only got a home due to some conflict if I recall. One of the best RC crowds too. Hit Potter's Pub pregame & they were clearly ill prepared for that.

F Dan Dakich. Sure Beilein was going to leave eventually. But besides his son Pat, we would have had Joe Herber too, who was even a little better than Pat. Both had very nice careers on good West Va teams. UR would have been loaded for a bit.

WEST IS SOFT

My first thought as well. Wanted to give a shout out to the OG. Rowdies were punching WAY above their level for the time. Went to a VCU game two times at the costco arena and remember a huge group of rowdies at both games. Remember them cheering raucously when we cut down the nets when we won the CAA and the ensuing scuffle after that as well.

Rowdy run was my absolute most favorite game tradition and am saddened its gone. Pep band playing Rocky and have a student run across the court, all the way up above where you enter and get the whole arena to spell out and cheer Richmond during the last official timeout.

As far as West being soft, Ill refrain from that since were in with some of his recruits these days lol

The rowdies though...

 

[Eight Legger]

Screw Matta and screw Frey. West is, was and always will have been soft.

 

[ur2K]

There may have been some young alumni in the student section too that night helping with the atmosphere … so I’ve heard.

West is soft

 

[Spiders05]

Ferrum, apologies, travelling for work, so late to see this. That game sticks out for sure.

Fond memories for sure. Lots of passion mixed with alcohol and friends. That was my freshman year, so wasn't running them just yet, but was learning from those that did. Was a good group. We took the spark from that night and built over the next couple of years.

We bussed to some fun away games at VCU (back when that place was a tomb), GWU (back when that place was crazy loud), Wake Forest. We were the largest organization on campus with over 500 paying members by 2003-04 season. Actually pulled out one of my Skrocki jerseys for Halloween Monday night.

In 2003 against Xavier, we had a full student section two hours before tip and West's brother came over and threatened the entire student section. Good times.

 

[SpiderTrap]

Those were def the height of the student sections. And remember too - this was old Robins Center. No flashy scoreboard, or video screens or sound systems to make it loud. It only got loud when the students got loud. First year in A10 was a rocky start and then we dominated the league. I think back then it was 2 divisions, and you played everyone in your own division twice and everyone on the other side once. I think our key that season was we swept the other division and went undefeated. We couldn't solve Xavier - unfortunately, we had no one to match up with West. I never thought he was super skilled in college - he was just athletic and hustled a lot. But one thing is for sure - he was soft.
The NIT run was great that year. Got Syracuse at home, but also remember we beat Minnesota before that game on their home floor to make it that far. Beilein was leaving sooner or later. He was interviewing every chance he got - he was second to Skip Prosser at Wake, then interviewed at Rutgers and I think turned them down, and then lost WVU (who we beat in the NIT the year before) to Dakich, only to come back again. Maybe if his son was a year older - he would not have left, but I think he would have just transferred with him. And good call on the German kid Herber. But I doubt UR admissions would have let him into UR.

But as much as people dislike the Beilein replacement - in 2 years - we beat Kansas and were back in NCAA tourney.

 

[GKiller]

The NIT run was great that year. Got Syracuse at home, but also remember we beat Minnesota before that game on their home floor to make it that far. Beilein was leaving sooner or later. He was interviewing every chance he got - he was second to Skip Prosser at Wake, then interviewed at Rutgers and I think turned them down, and then lost WVU (who we beat in the NIT the year before) to Dakich, only to come back again. Maybe if his son was a year older - he would not have left, but I think he would have just transferred with him. And good call on the German kid Herber. But I doubt UR admissions would have let him into UR.

But as much as people dislike the Beilein replacement - in 2 years - we beat Kansas and were back in NCAA tourney.

correct on wake & rutgers, but not on WVU. He was not in mix originally when Dakich was hired. They came to him only after that. In fact he got his first call about it from Big East commish Tranghese not WVU, just how it works often.

It actually came right after a very nice UR event at CCV that I attended. Beilein attended & spoke at it. It was an auction fundraiser for the UR grads who died in the 9/11 twin towers. Queally was also there, he was very close with 1 or possibly 2 of the grads who tragically died. Same fraternity. People can say want they want about PQ, & I get it on a small sample size I've personally seen him be an ass. But he's also given a lot to Richmond. That event had many cool donated items, 1 i believe was U of R's allotment of final 4 tix to New Orleans. PQ threw in private jet transportation to sweeten the deal.

Herber was coming here, this was a late spring/international recruit he didn't have to sign yet, so he could easily switch no LOI. I don't think any admission problem w Herber but I get why u say it since we've had some. Wainwright not long after got screwed on Vassallo. Yes Ole Jer got us Kansas and the bid, he was the coach so he does get some credit. It was exhilarating to get that bid bc we were bubble & didn't know. Every other bid we were auto or knew we were at large. Last year in CAA was other one we were truly bubble but first out. 2004 we got it so meaningful. But Ole Jer was also left with a very good team we know that too. Just saying if Beilein stayed we add in Pat and Herber to what we had, man watch out. I agree if JB left when Pat was already here Pat probably transfers. It just helped the odds he'd have stayed longer. But it's all a what if. Again post event Beilein gets the call and rest is history.

 

[spiderman]

great stuff, GK.

 

[urmite]

correct on wake & rutgers, but not on WVU. He was not in mix originally when Dakich was hired. They came to him only after that. In fact he got his first call about it from Big East commish Tranghese not WVU, just how it works often.

It actually came right after a very nice UR event at CCV that I attended. Beilein attended & spoke at it. It was an auction fundraiser for the UR grads who died in the 9/11 twin towers. Queally was also there, he was very close with 1 or possibly 2 of the grads who tragically died. Same fraternity. People can say want they want about PQ, & I get it on a small sample size I've personally seen him be an ass. But he's also given a lot to Richmond. That event had many cool donated items, 1 i believe was U of R's allotment of final 4 tix to New Orleans. PQ threw in private jet transportation to sweeten the deal.

Herber was coming here, this was a late spring/international recruit he didn't have to sign yet, so he could easily switch no LOI. I don't think any admission problem w Herber but I get why u say it since we've had some. Wainwright not long after got screwed on Vassallo. Yes Ole Jer got us Kansas and the bid, he was the coach so he does get some credit. It was exhilarating to get that bid bc we were bubble & didn't know. Every other bid we were auto or knew we were at large. Last year in CAA was other one we were truly bubble but first out. 2004 we got it so meaningful. But Ole Jer was also left with a very good team we know that too. Just saying if Beilein stayed we add in Pat and Herber to what we had, man watch out. I agree if JB left when Pat was already here Pat probably transfers. It just helped the odds he'd have stayed longer. But it's all a what if. Again post event Beilein gets the call and rest is history.

If he stayed let him pull in Pittsnogle as well...

 

[SpiderTrap]

correct on wake & rutgers, but not on WVU. He was not in mix originally when Dakich was hired. They came to him only after that. In fact he got his first call about it from Big East commish Tranghese not WVU, just how it works often.

It actually came right after a very nice UR event at CCV that I attended. Beilein attended & spoke at it. It was an auction fundraiser for the UR grads who died in the 9/11 twin towers. Queally was also there, he was very close with 1 or possibly 2 of the grads who tragically died. Same fraternity. People can say want they want about PQ, & I get it on a small sample size I've personally seen him be an ass. But he's also given a lot to Richmond. That event had many cool donated items, 1 i believe was U of R's allotment of final 4 tix to New Orleans. PQ threw in private jet transportation to sweeten the deal.

Herber was coming here, this was a late spring/international recruit he didn't have to sign yet, so he could easily switch no LOI. I don't think any admission problem w Herber but I get why u say it since we've had some. Wainwright not long after got screwed on Vassallo. Yes Ole Jer got us Kansas and the bid, he was the coach so he does get some credit. It was exhilarating to get that bid bc we were bubble & didn't know. Every other bid we were auto or knew we were at large. Last year in CAA was other one we were truly bubble but first out. 2004 we got it so meaningful. But Ole Jer was also left with a very good team we know that too. Just saying if Beilein stayed we add in Pat and Herber to what we had, man watch out. I agree if JB left when Pat was already here Pat probably transfers. It just helped the odds he'd have stayed longer. But it's all a what if. Again post event Beilein gets the call and rest is history.

I got a different story directly from Beilein years ago. He confirmed to me WVU had informally reached out to gauge interest initially, but it went nowhere as Dakich was hired (likely meaning Beilein was down on the list and they were just having backups ready). He didn't take it serious because it was very informal - my guess is, probably a short discussion with agent and maybe John involved to see was he looking to leave UR. Dakich is hired - thought nothing of it. Then Dakich backs out - I am sure WVU is scrambling, not sure how far down the list if any they had to go get to JB, but he gets the call and the rest is history. And I got this directly from the man himself.

 

[GKiller]

I got a different story directly from Beilein years ago. He confirmed to me WVU had informally reached out to gauge interest initially, but it went nowhere as Dakich was hired (likely meaning Beilein was down on the list and they were just having backups ready). He didn't take it serious because it was very informal - my guess is, probably a short discussion with agent and maybe John involved to see was he looking to leave UR. Dakich is hired - thought nothing of it. Then Dakich backs out - I am sure WVU is scrambling, not sure how far down the list if any they had to go get to JB, but he gets the call and the rest is history. And I got this directly from the man himself.

Gotcha. Yeah he wasn't really considered originally at all but it makes sense on their radar and there was informal gauging when dakich got it. I've spoken to Beilein about it too but didn't know that part. They did use Tranghese to broker the reengagement that night tho. But sounds like it wasn't out of the blue.

btw I was in Indy on business, this was at least 10-15 years ago I think, I'm in the rental car and I hear Dakich on his radio show there. At that time I no idea he had a show, not in Indy very much. So I call in & they take my call. I basically say do u know how badly u screwed over Richmond, why didn't u stick with it. Dakich doesn't have the best rep now in the media but he was pretty self deprecating about it. He basically said he f'd up that it was a mistake.

 

[SpiderTrap]

Yeah not sure how it worked back in those days. Remember - this was early 2000's when Beilein was at UR and having success - and this is before all the social media and even text messaging was not a big thing then. So I got a feeling agents were much more involved in having to make and take phone calls for coaches back then if a coach was looking to move up and field opportunities.

I also know part of the deal as well - as I am sure the offer went up when they offered JB after Dakich left - was that all the assistant coaches could come with JB and they had their salaries doubled as well. So not only did JB get his salary doubled, but he doubled the pay for all of his assistants. Usually one guy stays behind or incoming coach tries to keep one person for some continuity and recruiting - but no one stayed and I don't blame them.

 

[GKiller]

Yeah not sure how it worked back in those days. Remember - this was early 2000's when Beilein was at UR and having success - and this is before all the social media and even text messaging was not a big thing then. So I got a feeling agents were much more involved in having to make and take phone calls for coaches back then if a coach was looking to move up and field opportunities.

I also know part of the deal as well - as I am sure the offer went up when they offered JB after Dakich left - was that all the assistant coaches could come with JB and they had their salaries doubled as well. So not only did JB get his salary doubled, but he doubled the pay for all of his assistants. Usually one guy stays behind or incoming coach tries to keep one person for some continuity and recruiting - but no one stayed and I don't blame them.

Yeah u pretty much have to go. Occasionally there is a holdover that stays. But JB has always taken care of his coaches, as long as they wanted to go. That was a pretty good staff too. Mike Jones, Neubauer.

Little different than when Jerry left Winiecki out to dry going to Depaulful. Made his son assistant instead. Could have kept him as Dir of Ops. blood thicker than water I guess but the son was in over his head imo. Flamed out quickly.

 

[SpiderTrap]

I think JW left Winiecki out to dry as well, but I can't blame him too much. He probably thought out of all the coaches - Winiecki was most likely to land on his feet and honestly - given he was a UR grad, and depending on who UR hired - he probably thought he had a good chance of staying on at UR. I can't blame a dad (JW) for looking out for his own son - especially when probably talking to the tune of a couple hundred thousand dollars difference it made to have his son as assistant coach at DePaul vs. DOBO.

If UR hires anyone than Mooney, who runs a specific system - Winiecki probably stays. And really - I always thought Winiecki was a good coach and probably could have adapted and we could have used who work with big guys on rebounding at times. But he had a good career after UR as well - coached for a while at Clemson, and then G-League.

 

[urmite]

Took 5 years at Boston U/Wright St to get 7 years at Clemson, then 3 at G league.
That’s a long career as a coach, compared to many…

 

[SpiderTrap]

Took 5 years at Boston U/Wright St to get 7 years at Clemson, then 3 at G league.
That’s a long career as a coach, compared to many…

He had a good career as an assistant. Always thought had JW left on better terms, he would have been a good fit for UR as a head coach. If you ever watched a practice with JW - Winiecki was the main assistant. He was like Head Coach #2. And I liked the toughness he brought for our big guys and having played under Tarrant and having success at UR - I think he could have done well. But with JW leaving on bad terms - I think administration was ready for full change, which is understandable.