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OT: Around the A10: GW

he's a bad guy. don't want a coach like that no matter how many games he wins.
 
This is some serious dysfunction. I would love for Lonergan to survive this so we can get him down here again, but i really doubt it happens.
 
Yes - GW has had some characters for coaches - in comparison "stomping Karl" looks good! As with all such matters will take awhile to determine the validity of the accusations - agree with the GW pres. ".......................Investigations take time, and I don't think anyone ever benefits from a rush to judgment in advance of the facts."
 
HA, good thinking Lurker. not sure of the time line but why ask for practice tapes instead of being there. looks like they finally sent someone but if he or she is spotted the coach is going to be on best behavior. remember the ex umwcah coach who was at cal and his AD was in the next locker room either at halftime or after the game and heard his words, rant and fired him immediately. just seems that if half of this stuff were actually happening, another coach or athletic dept employee would have come to the AD. this possibly could be part of the generation snowflake syndrome that is going around.
 
Really, Spinner? That's your takeaway? Blame the kids? Wow. Cause it's not bothersome at all for your head coach to tell you your AD is masturbating to your practice footage. They should just toughen up, right?
 
Just read again the article in the Washington Post today; no way Lonergan remains the GW coach. OSC
 
Lonergan actions are surprising to no one in the basketball world. His rep has been along those lines all the way back to Catholic U. He is a strange man and now he has stepped over the line. I spoke with a friend who happens to know this situation well and he said it was the topic of conversation at the AAU deal in Vegas. Do some research and you will see that its not in anyway the players at GWU, its Lonergan and administration both. Two questions = Did the AD have a relationship with the player as said in article and did the IX administrator fail to follow up on players complaints. If so , more heads fall.
 
13 kids transferred in 5 years. multiple kids and a former assistant reporting abuse. smoke = fire. as for taking time to work through the process, it's already taken too long.
 
Eight, am saying it that way because nothing has happened there and now, in today's climate, if you step over the line, you are gone yesterday yet he remains there and this has been going on for years, if true and i say true, recall the duke lax case. as stated above if the coach goes so do some other people who have looked the other way for way too long.
 
Sometimes it takes a piece like this to enact change. If Lonergan has been acting this way for years, maybe some players dealt with it even though it was wrong and some didn't, while others just left the program. Unfortunately, as we should know by now, lots of people choose not to report stuff like this because they don't want to be in the spotlight for something that wasn't their fault. They don't want to be viewed as the ones who brought down a program, or a star athlete, etc. They didn't ask for any of that.

You can't just say "Well, if this was actually going on for years, he'd be gone by now." Maybe there were others who were complicit with him or who looked the other way. As you said, they will be gone too if it turns out they were covering anything up for him. Let's let things play out.
 
Every time I hear the Duke Lacrosse travesty mentioned, it makes my blood boil. But this is not quite the same in that the real culprit in the Duke case was an overzealous prosecutor who had nothing no association with the school.
I agree with Spinner that Duke was very much at fault as well in their prejudging the players' conduct and throwing them under the bus largely because of PC pressure, and I agree with Spinner's point with respect to having tolerated Lonergan's behavior already for a few years, but I still think GW still has to let him go.

Had it remained inhouse he might have had a chance, but now that it is public, I do not see how the president cannot but fire him and maintain any semblance of respectability because keeping him as coach would be rightly seen as a disregard of not only the treatment of the kids but also tolerance of sexual harassment and anti-gay innuendo. Hell, with Peter Thiel's "proud to be gay" speech at the RNC, even a republican university president of an academically respected university (of which, I suspect, there are but a few) would openly take umbrage.

The other thing I question is how Nero could have tolerated such treatment of the kids and slander of himself, and not fired him long ago. Isn't he the boss?
 
It is also somewhat worth wondering (if GW fires Lonergan soon) whether it would allow any of the current recruits (including our guy Steeves) to be released and commit elsewhere immediately. We do still have a spot, by chance. I'm sure nothing will happen, but what the hell. Gives us something else to think about for a few weeks, anyway.
 
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what i don't get, if it is this bad, when a recruit steps on campus and is escorted by another player(s), this does not come out. surely they have to tell a recruit that the coach is nuts, calls them names and ruins their college experience. how does this go on without that happening? still have to see if the players are telling the complete story or have an ax to grind elsewhere.
 
Coach is very careful about who gets private time with recruits
 
WebSpinner said:
what i don't get, if it is this bad, when a recruit steps on campus and is escorted by another player(s), this does not come out. surely they have to tell a recruit that the coach is nuts, calls them names and ruins their college experience. how does this go on without that happening? still have to see if the players are telling the complete story or have an ax to grind elsewhere.
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DUH, they only let the recruits hang with the sympathizers. Come on Webspinner would expect more from you ;)
 
to me you don't have much of a "team" if it is split between believers and non-believers, come on guys. if this coach is soooooooo bad, horrible, it would not be a couple of guys, let's be real here. if he is treating your team members like a dog, like dirt, maybe below dirt, they all have to know the deal so which guys does he give to the recruits? that sounds insane, have been on teams, not at this level, and just don't see that happening. something just does not feel right here, certainly can be wrong. this "team" has been winning at a high level and you would have to have a huge fracture if all of this is true. if the other members of the team come forward, then can see it but for a couple of guys to come forward, makes me feel weird about this entire dust up.
 
WebSpinner said:
to me you don't have much of a "team" if it is split between believers and non-believers, come on guys. if this coach is soooooooo bad, horrible, it would not be a couple of guys, let's be real here. if he is treating your team members like a dog, like dirt, maybe below dirt, they all have to know the deal so which guys does he give to the recruits? that sounds insane, have been on teams, not at this level, and just don't see that happening. something just does not feel right here, certainly can be wrong. this "team" has been winning at a high level and you would have to have a huge fracture if all of this is true. if the other members of the team come forward, then can see it but for a couple of guys to come forward, makes me feel weird about this entire dust up.
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Ok, you clearly didn't read the article very well. There are multiple accounts by different players that approximate the same thing, that Lonergan is over the line in his treatment of players and the AD.

It doesn't have to be the same treatment of all players or a reporting by all players to make it true and a major issue. That's like saying every piece of a moldy loaf of bread has to be fuzzy and green before you throw it out.
 
i, what makes your blood boil in the duke lax case, just curious. look, read the piece, some red flags, he is still there, well, it happened in individual situations not with the entire team, etc. not saying it did not happen, just saying it does not smell right. you don't fire a person, an individual, in our country, just based on a few guys, without some proof, unless you want a huge law suit. some of you are pulling the duke lax deal and just convicting him based on the stories. if happening, glad it is them, not us but you have to keep an open mind in these deals and not just throw people off the train, under the bus, without proof. understand, am not defending him, just saying wait until an investigation, hopefully an independent one, even a written one, takes place.
 
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WebSpinner said:
what i don't get, if it is this bad, when a recruit steps on campus and is escorted by another player(s), this does not come out. surely they have to tell a recruit that the coach is nuts, calls them names and ruins their college experience. how does this go on without that happening? still have to see if the players are telling the complete story or have an ax to grind elsewhere.
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Web, even if a player thinks his coach is an ass, it doesn't mean he doesn't want good players to join him on the team. Coach might even come down harder on you if the recruit didn't have a positive visit.
 
spiderman said:
Web, even if a player thinks his coach is an ass, it doesn't mean he doesn't want good players to join him on the team. Coach might even come down harder on you if the recruit didn't have a positive visit.
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Just seems like an untenable situation. This is apt to be over sooner than later as there seems to be scant support from his boss, the AD. OSC
 
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hear you S-Man but a huge difference between a guy being an "ass", a "jerk" as opposed to what is being presented here. would bet you could go to any squad around the country and you will find disgruntled players for various reasons. if this guy is making this team so miserable with what is being charged in the article, have to believe that players have to be telling recruits and if not, they don't deserve any merit, they are not learning any life lessons. some guys just cannot stand to be yelled at no matter what the words are and they should do something else or suck it up and get tougher, life is tough and nobody is going to give you much.
 
There's a big difference between handling legitimate criticism and being berated, told you belong in a transgender league, that your kids will always be in welfare and that the AD is masturbating to video of you.
 
kids generally don't want to transfer. they're trying to stick it out as long as they can. and during that time, they might not tell a recruit how bad things are. but eventually it's getting too bad. 13 in 5 years. that's a lot.
 
WebSpinner said:
hear you S-Man but a huge difference between a guy being an "ass", a "jerk" as opposed to what is being presented here. would bet you could go to any squad around the country and you will find disgruntled players for various reasons. if this guy is making this team so miserable with what is being charged in the article, have to believe that players have to be telling recruits and if not, they don't deserve any merit, they are not learning any life lessons. some guys just cannot stand to be yelled at no matter what the words are and they should do something else or suck it up and get tougher, life is tough and nobody is going to give you much.
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Did you even read the article?
 
I believe most are basing their negative comments on the few verified facts (players leaving) and the article. Not necessarily wild speculation, but agree not facts proven by an independent investigation, or proven facts in a trial.
 
I think the point of the article is that there is substantial reason by way of individual complaints to warrant a Title IX inquiry. GWU doesn't seem to be willing to do so or has informally done so and is unwilling to discuss its findings.
 
Tbone, now you are talking sense, something is not right, and yes did read the article which sent up red flags for me. Eight if what the guy is being accused of is true, then he goes, if not, the school has to make a decision to have transfers, some unhappy kids and winning a lot of games or going in a different direction. am not caught up in "words" as you are, especially when it comes to sex but that is OK. would wager that you have never been in a locker room environment other than in middle or high school and not in a military barracks where you hear things you may not like and it goes on constantly from both coaches and drill sarge but also your bunk mates and team mates. you seem to think that those areas are to be pristine and PC words are not uttered. better figure it out buddy, it goes on, always has, always will. you can have all the sensitivity classes you want but does not really change that much behavior in real life. my first "foster son" in our basketball program departed because he could not take the yelling, etc. he was a nice young man, a tough kid but just did not wish to put up with it, understood his decision, we remain friends and keep in touch although in different cities.
 
WebSpinner said:
i, what makes your blood boil in the duke lax case, just curious. look, read the piece, some red flags, he is still there, well, it happened in individual situations not with the entire team, etc. not saying it did not happen, just saying it does not smell right. you don't fire a person, an individual, in our country, just based on a few guys, without some proof, unless you want a huge law suit. some of you are pulling the duke lax deal and just convicting him based on the stories. if happening, glad it is them, not us but you have to keep an open mind in these deals and not just throw people off the train, under the bus, without proof. understand, am not defending him, just saying wait until an investigation, hopefully an independent one, even a written one, takes place.
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Spinner, I agree with you in this case with respect to your logic and conclusion. What makes my blood boil the most is the despicable conduct of the prosecutor but am also on board that the conduct of the school with respect to taking their action based totally upon PCness without giving any credence to what the kids side of the story is very wrong. Incidentally, I have seen the 30/30 presentation at least three times and read several articles about what happened at Duke, one of my favorite schools, incidentally.

In the GW case, however, another important difference in what happened is that thus far the allegations have remained undisputed by the Lonegan even after ample opportunity to explain or deny. That and the role of an outsider are the significant differences I see in the fact situation.

But even so, you make an excellent point and I commend you for bringing out the principle that we should hear all the evidence and wait for all of the facts to evolve before we convict. I do not argue with that and if I appear to have convicted by my statements, I was wrong.
 
urfan1 said:
I believe most are basing their negative comments on the few verified facts (players leaving) and the article. Not necessarily wild speculation, but agree not facts proven by an independent investigation, or proven facts in a trial.
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fan1, facts may never be proven. doubt there's video or audio proof. but enough people saying the same thing is enough for me. I'm not looking to convict. but if I'm the AD than this guy is gone.
 
well said i, however, this is just a forum to discuss thoughts and that sometimes people are strong in their opinions, sometimes overboard IMHO
 
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WebSpinner said:
Tbone, now you are talking sense, something is not right, and yes did read the article which sent up red flags for me. Eight if what the guy is being accused of is true, then he goes, if not, the school has to make a decision to have transfers, some unhappy kids and winning a lot of games or going in a different direction. am not caught up in "words" as you are, especially when it comes to sex but that is OK. would wager that you have never been in a locker room environment other than in middle or high school and not in a military barracks where you hear things you may not like and it goes on constantly from both coaches and drill sarge but also your bunk mates and team mates. you seem to think that those areas are to be pristine and PC words are not uttered. better figure it out buddy, it goes on, always has, always will. you can have all the sensitivity classes you want but does not really change that much behavior in real life. my first "foster son" in our basketball program departed because he could not take the yelling, etc. he was a nice young man, a tough kid but just did not wish to put up with it, understood his decision, we remain friends and keep in touch although in different cities.
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Ah, playing the macho card again, I see. Typical. Yeah, if certain kids would prefer to be treated like human beings instead of degraded like dogs, clearly they're too soft to play for you. It's all their fault, and evidently mine too, because I never served in the military or played Division I college basketball, so therefore how could my little pea brain even begin to understand why it's perfectly ok for coaches to treat players in any manner they want to, right? Clearly it's all about your beloved "PC" and absolutely nothing to do with what is ACTUALLY right or wrong, or god forbid holding yourself and those in positions of leadership to higher standards. No, if you're a "real" leader, you can just treat people like dogshit and then tell them to get over it if any of them dare to question you. Got it.

Lonergan probably should get a 10-year extension and be promoted to president of the university. You've totally changed my mind.
 
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