Off Season Grade
- Thread starter spider23
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What a crazy good 6 months.
Win the A-10 tourney.
Beat Iowa in the dance.
Grace and Goose come back.
We get Quinn, Roche, and Bigelow.
Tyler comes back.
We get Smith, Tanner, and Reed.
Win the A-10 tourney.
Beat Iowa in the dance.
Grace and Goose come back.
We get Quinn, Roche, and Bigelow.
Tyler comes back.
We get Smith, Tanner, and Reed.
Nothing to dispute here. Opportunity seized.
It has been fun to reread this thread as the real question is when is the end of the grading period. Based on all of the above my grade is an A. Not going A+ because the one thing holding back perfection is this year’s schedule.
I'm holding back just a little, would like to have another plus athletic guy in this class. We do need to play defense too. Maybe Ball is that guy. Would be thrilled with Durkin too, bit I think Ball checks that box more.
How about those Monarchs? 😂
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Agree 100%. All know that I am not a fan of Chris Mooney's coaching ability. But, I must say that program-wise things look very good going forward. This is the most optimistic that I have been regarding Spider basketball in a LONG time. The question remains, is Mooney skilled enough to take the potential (optimism) and turn it into consistent high level success (regular NCAA's) or will he muck it up?
Time will tell. Track record makes me lean toward him mucking it up, however, if that doesn't happen, I'll get off his back and give him credit. An NCAA tournament appearance does wonders for recruiting, and It seems to me that the opportunity is before him.
agreed an NCAA appearance can help recruiting but it didn't pan out last time.
despite our gap in dancing, our recent recruiting the past 6 years or so has been stronger than after 2011.
and this 3 man class looks to be one of our best.
After all Mooney is the best ambassador of this university.
Down grading a bit to B minus.
Reed is a huge blow. I get you can certainly fill in a lot easier with transfers now, and Mooney did a good job this year - but you also need "program guys" and we could sure use one like this to plug in the line up for 4 years.
WIth the success of TJ and Grant, etc and probably the highest usage rate in the NCAA for bigs, its crazy we cannot land these guys out of h.s. Will be interesting where Reed ends up.
Reed is a huge blow. I get you can certainly fill in a lot easier with transfers now, and Mooney did a good job this year - but you also need "program guys" and we could sure use one like this to plug in the line up for 4 years.
WIth the success of TJ and Grant, etc and probably the highest usage rate in the NCAA for bigs, its crazy we cannot land these guys out of h.s. Will be interesting where Reed ends up.
This doesn't seem fair. 😀 You had us at B+++ before we got Reed. So, how can we be B- now? In all seriousness, I know we all wanted Reed, but we have still had a pretty solid 6-8 months getting guys in here. So, I'm just not going to let this loss bother me that much. I'm still crazy excited about where we are as a program right now.
So Far, giving Mooney a C , really just an incomplete at this time.
Thrilled with the Jordan King pick up, that moves it from F to C right there, the individual signing is an A.
But much more work to do. Just Burton coming back probably weighs in moving needle to C+.
Need another legit guard, and one more player.
Thrilled with the Jordan King pick up, that moves it from F to C right there, the individual signing is an A.
But much more work to do. Just Burton coming back probably weighs in moving needle to C+.
Need another legit guard, and one more player.
And revisiting this, I see it was mentioned we had 6-8 months to fill in Reed. Still no replacement.
In retrospect, our grades from last year seemed overly optimistic. I don't think anyone saw after our 3 portals transfers, Tyler returning that we would be a sub .500 team and playing in the play in tournament for the A-10 tourney.
Luckily for us, while we had expectations, Hardt was just going to let it play out to see what his expectations were.
I think Mooney dropped the class around 2013 and called the grade a W.
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OMG can’t believe how positive I was about the 3 transfers last year. Didn’t really work as well as expected for Roche and Bigs but still see talent if A) plays incorporated for Roche B) Bigs less early 3’s and he gets allowed to crash O glass.
Quinn is just Quinn but how much more offense could he produce if he realized the rim has a BACKBOARD attached to it. He’s taken more unique close range shots that I think I’ve ever seen from a player. Get someone working with him practicing just 2-3 go-to shots close to rim. Maybe expected too much?
Quinn is just Quinn but how much more offense could he produce if he realized the rim has a BACKBOARD attached to it. He’s taken more unique close range shots that I think I’ve ever seen from a player. Get someone working with him practicing just 2-3 go-to shots close to rim. Maybe expected too much?
Good point. Even though I like having a lot of guards out there, I did like what Reed could have added, and would certainly like to add a guy like him this spring.
My expectations for the transfers were high also, but I also factored quality PG play in with those expectations. I said we could win 20 games with just average PG play and more than 20 with above average PG play. Hard to say I was wrong there, but I can admit I was wrong about my excitement for Nelson. I look at PG like I do QB. It's just incredibly hard to win a lot without a good one. I am thinking we will see all 3 transfers have better years after we get better PG play this year.
It was a lot to put on a freshman, but Mooney also anointed him as the starter from early on, so I think we were all led to believe that Nelson was going to deliver.
But yes, our guard play in general last year was really bad. I think we have a good one in King for next year but we clearly need more pieces to make a complete team at this point.
I have said Mooney had a bad year last year, and I think his biggest error was with Nelson. You are right, he pretty much gave him the keys before the season even started. Not sure if he even tried for a PG in the portal last year, but bottom line is we didn't get one, and when Nelson started struggling, we really had no one else to turn to. That's on the coach.
Nelson was a good signing for us, I think between Covid, the RS year and everything, it just got a little messed up and did not work out.
Agree 4700, you need good PG play, and we did not get good enough. It is critical to everyone getting shots in their spots. Too often just dribbling the clock down. Again, not blaming Nelson completely here, just did not come to fruition last year.
King is a proven commodity in college, so that should allow us to function much better from day 1 it would seem. Hoping Dji comes back with improved handles and effectiveness too, but think we need to add one more proven guard. Hoping for Brown.
Agree 4700, you need good PG play, and we did not get good enough. It is critical to everyone getting shots in their spots. Too often just dribbling the clock down. Again, not blaming Nelson completely here, just did not come to fruition last year.
King is a proven commodity in college, so that should allow us to function much better from day 1 it would seem. Hoping Dji comes back with improved handles and effectiveness too, but think we need to add one more proven guard. Hoping for Brown.
And just look at the situation Reed is walking into. Wonder if he's still 101% committed. They're bringing in some highly regarded transfers, but obviously this is a completely different squad than what Reed signed up for.
Yep, Tulsa was terrible last season. Hope he likes his new teammates. Figured Gipe would have re-flipped him by now.
I think what hurt us the most if that none of our transfers or PG got better as the season went on. I thought that we would start slow and it would take time for guys to gel, guys to get used to playing on bigger stage, get used to better competition, etc. But I thought by a few games into the A10 schedule - we would be seeing signs of improvement. Instead - we saw regression. Roche shooting dipped in the A10 vs. OOC. Nelson made frosh mistakes early on, and seemed to make more and more as season progressed. Bigelow started out hot for us, but then came down to earth and although steady at times, never really progressed. And Quinn - while he had some good games point wise down the stretch, all season long I think I looked at him and you saw about 4-5 minute stretch each game where he looked like an all-league player. He would rebound, he would make a good pass, he would score 4-5 points in that span. And you say to yourself - this is the guy we need. But then he would go off an disappear either for the rest of the game or for the next 15 minutes before he had another small spurt.
And to top things off- Burton did not have his best year. I think we asked too much of him and maybe he was not as good as we thought - which is not a dig at him - but I thought potential A10 POY coming into this year and at the end - he was about a right at 2nd team all league, which I think is a fall from potential POY.
And to top things off- Burton did not have his best year. I think we asked too much of him and maybe he was not as good as we thought - which is not a dig at him - but I thought potential A10 POY coming into this year and at the end - he was about a right at 2nd team all league, which I think is a fall from potential POY.
That is an excellent summary. I too expected improvement as the season went on and the team "gelled."
I don’t think Quinn regressed. If u graphed it not a big arc but maybe a slow steady incremental improvement. I don’t know how he gagged that game winning bunny at GW & agree about using backboard more but was 1 of the more consistent guys. I did not like our O last year very little flow we threw into Quinn sometimes too much but not his fault. More about lack of 3 pt shooting.
Quinn made huge strides during the season but I think he was an outlier. Nelson regressed, Roche regressed, Bigs regressed. Burton didn't live up preseason expectations but still had a really good year for us. Grace and Goose were what we thought they would be, incomplete players who were given starter roles on a bad A-10 team.
As I look back at last year, Quinn's growth was one of the few bright spots.
Quinn looked really really good at times, and then struggled at times. I think just more consistency game to game, and within games and he will be a good player for us next year. And yes, I want Walz pushing him and getting minutes. He has more athleticism and should be able to be more effective on defense.
Roche - he would benefit from having more weapons on the court. A10 coaches obviously scouted and were not giving him space. If we have more guys hitting threes it would help him.
Roche - he would benefit from having more weapons on the court. A10 coaches obviously scouted and were not giving him space. If we have more guys hitting threes it would help him.
He did. But the times he looked good increased as the year went on. I think it took time for him to get comfortable. Mooney said as much. But by the nature of his size and lack of athleticism, there are match-ups where he will be really really good, and likewise match-ups that will be less optimal for him. This is where Walz should be a good compliment because he is a different type of big.
My issue with Quinn is the disappearance factor. He would put up decent numbers by the end of the game, but we always non-existent for long periods. I am not sure if this is a player issue, coaching, strategy, etc. But I don't ever remember guys like him disappearing - think Golden. He might take a shot or two where we shake our head, but he rarely disappeared. Quinn at times - you would never know he was out there. BUT - optimistically, I can at least see he is able to play at a high level - so the potential is there, just need it consistently and longer. I think Quinn can be an all-league player and we need that to be successful under Mooney.
With Grace gone, hopefully Walz will get deserved playing time. Mooney has a history of parking players on the bench. I really felt Walz should have gotten more mins this past season. At a certain point, one realizes we weren’t a contending team, and more court mins aren’t a bad thing. I do realize Walz was also hurt for a period of time EOY, however way too many games this season he never saw the court.
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But even with Walz and even though he has been on the team this year, and got to practice and even play in a few games - next year will be like a frosh year for him. We almost never see a guy parked on the bench and then when their time to play they step and ready. Not saying ready in that Walz needs to be an all league player. But consistent -6-8 points a night with 5 rebounds would be nice. And not sure we get that year 1 off the bench.
Walz looked very raw to me last year. Turnovers were an issue, given the total minutes played, as well.
Agreed - which just makes me think, next year will not be a year we can expect much of an impact from him. It would be more of a year where he gets experience and maybe the following year - he gives us something.
Yep. Again, needs playing time. Me thinks Mooney is too slow incorporating these guys into rotation or at least more than mop up duty here or there. Then when their time comes, hopefully a bit of carryover time and experience will be value added.
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