Nevada

[fatherspider]

9-22 in 14/15 then fired their coach David Green after a six year run. Green was 98-97 when canned. They hire Eric Musselman whi was a hcin nba but had been an ncaa assistant for four years before the hire.

In first year at Nevada they go 24-14, second year 28-7 (ncaa first round), 3rd year 29-8 and sweet 16.

This year they are damn good again and 9-0 and ranked 6th.

That is what a coach can do to turn a program around. Only two other schools were looking at him 3 years ago. He was signed for $400k for his first two seasons and signed a $1m/ year deal for 5 years after 2017 season.

This shows that a great coach can turn a program around quickly. With a diligent and smart search a good AD can find the kind of candidate that can do it.

Mooney needs to go and we need to find our Musselman. They are out there.

 

[spider23]

I was a big proponent of going after the Martin twins as hard as possible in the transfer market. Those two obviously a major impact in Nevada and were not very hyped or pursued at a high level that offseason. Musselman has recruited very very well their, and just look at his energy and enthusiasm coaching vs Mooney. I think Wes Miller could be a Musselman type. Does not have the NBA pedigree but can recruit and can pump some life into the program.

 

[Ulla1]

Wes Miller:
Head coaching record
Overall 112–110 (.505)

 

[SpiderRick]

That's got to be one of the best turn arounds ever!

 

[ChoppinBroccoli]

Wes Miller:
Head coaching record
Overall 112–110 (.505)

In the interest of TRUTH and FACTUAL INFORMATION without an AGENDA,
His head coaching record is 120-112. And he hasn't gotten to play Coppin St. yet this year!
The team he took over mid-season '11-'12 was so bad that even though he only went 11-11, he was named conference COY.

 

[wr70beh]

Wes Miller:
Head coaching record
Overall 112–110 (.505)

Eric Musselman:
HEAD COACHING RECORD
PRIOR TO TAKING OVER AT NEVADA
108–138 (NBA)
270–122 (CBA)
53–3 (USBL)
77–30 (D-League)
0-0 (NCAA)

LAST 5 YEARS
Wes Miller - 85-61 (trending up)
Chris Mooney - 75-68 (trending down)

 

[spider23]

Thanks for the fact checks guys. Miller's early record did concern me but he was VERY young and I read some articles and he seems to have figured out. Trending up indeed.

 

[spiderstudent17]

Keith Dambrodt in his 2nd year is turning Duquesne around to be better - and improving - than what they were under Jim Ferry. Duquesne fired Ferry for poor performance.

Many ardent Mooney supporters seem to think that we won’t be able to rebound quickly with a new coach. A great hire can turn this program around in 1-2 years. At worst, during that rebounding phase with a new coach, we’ll continue to lose to Longwood and Hampton, which Mooney is doing in his 14th year here

 

[whampas]

Keith Dambrodt in his 2nd year is turning Duquesne around to be better - and improving - than what they were under Jim Ferry. Duquesne fired Ferry for poor performance.

Many ardent Mooney supporters seem to think that we won’t be able to rebound quickly with a new coach. A great hire can turn this program around in 1-2 years. At worst, during that rebounding phase with a new coach, we’ll continue to lose to Longwood and Hampton, which Mooney is doing in his 14th year here

You said rebounding. Give me 50 pushups.

 

[fatherspider]

That's got to be one of the best turn arounds ever!

There have been a lot of turnovers close. Wichita State under Marshall for one. Imo its the sport that coaching is almost everything. And of course recruiting is part of coaching.

 

[fatherspider]

Eric Musselman:
HEAD COACHING RECORD
PRIOR TO TAKING OVER AT NEVADA
108–138 (NBA)
270–122 (CBA)
53–3 (USBL)
77–30 (D-League)
0-0 (NCAA)

LAST 5 YEARS
Wes Miller - 85-61 (trending up)
Chris Mooney - 75-68 (trending down)

But if you read about musselman you see that he was making a huge difference as an assistant. An AD needs to search hard and know the game to find the right guy and if they dont they should get canned. It really is their only function. Hire the right candidates to run teams. If they fail at that they need to be canned.

 

[Eight Legger]

Yep. This is why more and more I want the Michigan assistant Yaklich. If JB trusts him, that’s enough for me. He’s credited with introducing a new defense there that has just shut everyone down this year. He’s never been a head coach in college so there’s some risk, but it works to our advantage too, because he probably wouldn’t get a P5 job right away.

 

[wr70beh]

Based on football scheduling Michigan State in 2023, is there some past connection with Hardt and the Spartans? Is there anyone on Izzo's staff that might want to run his own program? Not sure how close Hardt and Izzo are.

 

[Eight Legger]

Their recruiting coordinator is....Doug Wojcik. But otherwise it doesn’t look like there’s a fit. Two assistants who were bad as head coaches at smaller programs and a lead assistant who’s been there forever.

 

[I-M-UR]

Keith Dambrodt in his 2nd year is turning Duquesne around to be better - and improving - than what they were under Jim Ferry. Duquesne fired Ferry for poor performance.

Many ardent Mooney supporters seem to think that we won’t be able to rebound quickly with a new coach. A great hire can turn this program around in 1-2 years.

You don't have to look beyond our own history for quick turn arounds: Goetz was a 500 coach Tarrant went 18/11 the first year then 12/16 followed by lots of 20 win seasons. Dooley same thing a 500 coach the Beilein went 23/8. it can is has been done before.

 

[WebSpinner]

to be fair, there is no guarantee that you get the right coach, the great hire, when one makes a change. DT was just lucky for us, he was here, we needed someone NOW so he got the job. JB was a great hire, a great fit for us. with the number of coaching changes that take place annually in both football and basketball, seems to me that many times the right coach, the great hire, is not happening even after going through a tedious process of interviews, conversing with others, etc., still a crap shoot in many ways. not saying you don't make changes when needed, warranted, just saying that you still might not be right in the person you hire even after all the due diligence.

 

[SouthJerseySpiderFan]

Web, precisely what I have stated previously from the beginning of the Mooney must go discussion, but most fans looking for greater success I believe will take that chance. If not for Mooney's in-bed with the UR higher-ups, he probably be gone by now.

 

[spiderstudent17]

to be fair, there is no guarantee that you get the right coach, the great hire, when one makes a change. DT was just lucky for us, he was here, we needed someone NOW so he got the job. JB was a great hire, a great fit for us. with the number of coaching changes that take place annually in both football and basketball, seems to me that many times the right coach, the great hire, is not happening even after going through a tedious process of interviews, conversing with others, etc., still a crap shoot in many ways. not saying you don't make changes when needed, warranted, just saying that you still might not be right in the person you hire even after all the due diligence.

There's no guarantee with anything. However, if we look at a coach's history, their success at a previous institution, their ability to recruit etc. we can use that as a model to predict the future. Will coaches that check all those boxes always pan out? No. But the same way there is a higher probability that a 4 star recruit makes more of an impact on his team than a 0 star recruit, a coach with a successful past will likely have a successful future.

Look at Mooney for instance.

He had a 24-27 (.471) head coaching record at Beaver College for 2 years.

He then went 18-12 (.600) in the 1 year he was head coach of Air Force.

We then hired him (don't know why we hired a guy 42-39 head coaching record but the past is the past). In the 14 years here he has a 241-200 (.54) record.

This guy hasn't had exactly a high pedigree of success, and as history predicts, we remain an average team (declining) in his 14th year here.

Look at Keith Dambrot head coaching record:

40-23 (.635) with Tiffin for 2 years
48-13 (.787) with Ashland Eagles for 2 years
20-34 (.370) with CMU for 2 years. This is an anomaly because...
305-139 (.687) record with Akron for 13 years

And now has Duquesne at 21-19 (.54) and trending upward. His total win recorid is 433-227 (.656)

--

So my point in all of this is that we should not be keeping Mooney out of fear we are going to get someone worse. There are plenty of coaches - as discussed in the Next Coach thread - that have a proven track record of success. Every great coach had to start somewhere in their career and our job is to find one of them as they move up in the ladder. Also, Mooney has had a 17 year coaching history of being average. What makes anyone think he will figure it out in year 18? If for whatever reason our new coach doesn't work out, we fire him and try again. Let's not get complacent with mediocrity out of fear for change.

 

[WebSpinner]

heck, not fearful, just stating facts and want to make sure all of us go into a coaching search/change with eyes wide open. think most of us were elated when we were able to land RH for football and already some want him gone before he has an opportunity to do it his way.

 

[Not-A-Homer]

to be fair, there is no guarantee that you get the right coach, the great hire, when one makes a change. DT was just lucky for us, he was here, we needed someone NOW so he got the job. JB was a great hire, a great fit for us. with the number of coaching changes that take place annually in both football and basketball, seems to me that many times the right coach, the great hire, is not happening even after going through a tedious process of interviews, conversing with others, etc., still a crap shoot in many ways. not saying you don't make changes when needed, warranted, just saying that you still might not be right in the person you hire even after all the due diligence.

Respect your position as your points are logical. Your position though is how people like Chris Mooney get hired. As alluded to by your post, Mooney's hiring was a TOTAL crap shoot. There was no evidence that he would be a great coach.

Mooney was young and had virtually no coaching experience. He had a losing record as coach in his first 2-years at some low level no-name school that I have never heard of. He was an assistant at Air Force for a year of two, and then he took over Air Force when their coach left. He was Air Force head coach for 1-year, AND during that year he took a team that had made the NCAA in the two previous years and led them to a non-tourney season (by the way they returned to the NCAA tournament the year following Mooney's departure).

I am sure that the AD felt that Mooney seemed to be a nice guy. But, EVERY other factor should have told him that this applicant was a very high risk. Mooney's resume at that moment screamed that he needed time and experience to see whether he was going to find long-term success. The evidence available at the time (though I concede it was limited data, so therefore it should only carry so much weight) suggested otherwise.

The Richmond AD at the time made a head coaching hire that was a wild ass guess. Not surprisingly the hope and a prayer on Mooney didn't turn out that great. A good or a bad hire should not be a roll of the dice. That is not how a competent AD hires his/her next coach. I hope that Hardt has more skill than this and does not repeat that ignorant process.

A good or bad hire is all on the AD. If they do not have enough skill to determine what is needed and whom to hire then they are in the wrong position.

No wild ass guesses this time around. The head coaching job at Richmond should be way past that point.

 

[nathanw19]

I alluded to this article in the coaching tree thread;

CollegeBasketballTalk: Shaka Smart's coaching tree is thriving as his Texas tenure is slow to start
https://collegebasketball.nbcsports...hriving-as-his-texas-tenure-is-slow-to-start/

It also relates to hiring a new coach, as they talk about a Nike sponsored event where AD’s can meet the next “hot” assistants in the country. The article argues that the assistants are probably somewhere between Nike pushing their favorites and actual great coaches. I would be interested to know if we’ve ever attended this get together. If not, why? We’re a Nike school, we should be using all the advantages we can.

The article also mentions how Smart (and all head coaches) keep a list of top assistants they would want to add to their staff. With the lack of innovative assistants hires over the years for Mooney, i’m not sure he’s been on top of this.

Overall an interesting read, even if it is a VCU centric article.

 

[urmite]

In the interest of TRUTH and FACTUAL INFORMATION without an AGENDA,
His head coaching record is 120-112. And he hasn't gotten to play Coppin St. yet this year!
The team he took over mid-season '11-'12 was so bad that even though he only went 11-11, he was named conference COY.

Just for complete disclosure, weren’t 20 of those victories over non D1?

 

[fatherspider]

to be fair, there is no guarantee that you get the right coach, the great hire, when one makes a change. DT was just lucky for us, he was here, we needed someone NOW so he got the job. JB was a great hire, a great fit for us. with the number of coaching changes that take place annually in both football and basketball, seems to me that many times the right coach, the great hire, is not happening even after going through a tedious process of interviews, conversing with others, etc., still a crap shoot in many ways. not saying you don't make changes when needed, warranted, just saying that you still might not be right in the person you hire even after all the due diligence.

I agree. SAying that, i think when Gregg Marshall
was hired At Witchita it was a pretty sure thing seeing his success at Winthrop. Same w Jay wright aT Villa after Hofstra. I didnt say it would be easy. Hardt makes a ton and it is his biggest function as AD... hiring our basketball coach. Get it done.

 

[ur2K]

I’d rather miss on a new coach than keep a bad one for too long.

 

[Eight Legger]

I alluded to this article in the coaching tree thread;

CollegeBasketballTalk: Shaka Smart's coaching tree is thriving as his Texas tenure is slow to start
https://collegebasketball.nbcsports...hriving-as-his-texas-tenure-is-slow-to-start/

It also relates to hiring a new coach, as they talk about a Nike sponsored event where AD’s can meet the next “hot” assistants in the country. The article argues that the assistants are probably somewhere between Nike pushing their favorites and actual great coaches. I would be interested to know if we’ve ever attended this get together. If not, why? We’re a Nike school, we should be using all the advantages we can.

The article also mentions how Smart (and all head coaches) keep a list of top assistants they would want to add to their staff. With the lack of innovative assistants hires over the years for Mooney, i’m not sure he’s been on top of this.

Overall an interesting read, even if it is a VCU centric article.

Villa 7 was developed at VCU and held there for years. I would hope we attended, but who knows. They moved it out to Oregon a few years ago.

 

[keefusb]

They had to move it because Villa7 was Mike Ellis's pet project. We all know what happened with that.

 

[WebSpinner]

get it, understand it but the fact remains, every year coaches are getting canned, lots of coaches so there must be a ton of search firms, athletic directors, search committees, who are failing to some degree. don't think when we went to the sweet 16 that anyone thought we had made a wild ass guess, heck we all wanted to do whatever to retain our wild ass guess coach and we did.

 

[spider23]

get it, understand it but the fact remains, every year coaches are getting canned, lots of coaches so there must be a ton of search firms, athletic directors, search committees, who are failing to some degree. don't think when we went to the sweet 16 that anyone thought we had made a wild ass guess, heck we all wanted to do whatever to retain our wild ass guess coach and we did.

I did not, I REPEAT I DID NOT

 

[WebSpinner]

well, should not have said everyone but it was close. did not mean to offend you 23

 

[spider23]

Thanks Spinner. I think Hardt offended Miller. He said the 10 year contract was unheard of, and directed questions to Mllier.

 

[WebSpinner]

think, don't really know, that the 10 year deal is something the agent demanded and got. have spoken with another athletic director who stated he would never have gone with that. that was the only part of the contract that would have been a deal breaker for me but again, not in the position of the athletic director who was in the negotiations with everyone screaming to retain the coach at all costs.

 

[I-M-UR]

Thanks Spinner. I think Hardt offended Miller. He said the 10 year contract was unheard of, and directed questions to Mllier.

didn't 10 years work out for VCU? I'm guessing they got a big payday when Shaka left? For us it was a bad bet on one big season, hopefully it we'll never do it again. We just have to realize successful coaches at UR will likely move up so why gamble on 10 years and be stuck with a bad one?

 

[WebSpinner]

guess it was the combo of a million + the 10 years which was bad. agree to 10 years only if paying $200,000 and to only 5 years if paying a million. it was sure easier when the athletic director was negotiating with a coach as opposed to a professional agent. recall vince lombardi saying that an agent came into his green bay packer office and stated that he was negotiating center bill curry's new contract. lombardi said excuse me for one moment, left the room and returned a few minutes later. told the agent to call the colts to negotiate because bill curry had been traded to baltimore. hilarious but back in the day, doable as opposed to today. you have to play some chicken and be a tad hard-headed or you will be steamrolled. also, to be fair, if the guy is really good, the 10 years will not retain him and you will get paid by the new school so protects both parties not just the coach. no matter, 10 years just seems unrealistic.

 

[mcspider]

I am with you on the years and the length. In general I think that no matter what the salary and length of contract are, you have to go into it knowing that you may want/have to fire the coach before that contract is done. Obviously to this point the school has never been willing to accept a simple firing and buying out (or continuing to pay) Mooney as an option on the table. But it should be no matter who the coach is. If you offer the terms, be willing to buy it out at any time.