ADVERTISEMENT

Negatives...

The Vault

Team Manager
May 9, 2003
2,203
85
48
Been a while since I bothered to post on here and definitely have visited less than before. Mainly because it's descended into a pit of negativity the last couple of years. Some of the criticisms valid and worthwhile, some constructive, many not.

This is a forum all opinions welcome but that being said, at some point when I used to post often I remembering debating the merits of positivity from our fan base. Did criticism of players, parents or coaches eke into their decisions, thought processes, or daily lives or were we (mostly) in a fan bubble? People fell on both sides of this. Some said, those players, coaches and parents need thicker skins. We want to be big time college sports so this is part and parcel of that. Every team has critics and message boards. True. And, obviously, enough family members have checked in here over the years to know we don't just babble in a vacuum and some of what we say ripples outward. But to what degree?

I saw a great social media post from TJ defending his former coach in light of the win last night. Shawndre spoke up too. It's clear the FireMooneyMafia or like minded thinkers have spoken loudly enough to be known by the players (former and current) and by their families and by recruits. Why? Because in the same thread a parent of a player mentioned just how brazen the negativity is (comparatively) around our program and said that it has legitimately undermined recruiting. Considering that parent has first hand knowledge of a fan base that is perhaps even angrier at their coach then our fan base was at ours earlier in the year... this is telling.

Perhaps, there are better ways to go about inciting change then hashtags and catfishing local reporters. Perhaps, if your campaign to get a coach fired is in fact undermining the very thing you seek to improve your methods should be rethought.

When things are going bad, the optimists and the "be positive" posters tend to get out shouted on social media and message boards. For those that want to support the coach, the team, the players, the families and the recruits, perhaps we should speak up more not less when things are going bad.
Also, these guys love their coach. You attack him, you attack them whether you want to or not. When the only voices heard are the small but vocal group clamoring for a guy's job, it distorts the perception of just how many actually support coach and by default the players. Apparently, recruit's parents think that small group is representative of the fan base as a whole. That's... tragic.

We have some great kids, we really do. We are lucky to support them.

I don't want to debate the merits of our coach, seems like that's been done ad infinitum on here. People aren't likely changing the minds of others. What I do hope that at some point all of us will realize there is enough in the players mostly sophomores and freshmen that our coach will get two more years to prove himself whether you want him to or not. Our AD seems reasonable. That strategy seems very reasonable. I shouldn't ask this as I know the likely response but maybe in the interests we share (success of the program) going forward we can just table the really acidic invective until then? Is that too much to ask. Less hashtags, less tweets, less catfishing?

I recognize we'll be dogs in our next two games and the temptation will be there to fire up the heat if we do lose, but I hope we tone things down just a notch even after our worst displays.

I do think if this core sticks around we are going to have a fun year next year (maybe even a really surprising and fun year this year), and one of our all time great years in two. Also, I'm a gambling man. I see us poised for a truly special run. If I could find A10 futures for two years out, I'd make a very large wager. Any of you MooneyMafias like to hold the other side of the action?

PM to discuss. I'll probably be checking in on rivals more often after reading those tweets today, so I should get back to you sooner rather then later.

(And my apologies if I'm rehashing wholly old material as mentioned I haven't been here much).
 
Good post. Disagree that it is a "small but vocal minority". Actually think if you surveyed the fan base more people would be on the FMM side than on the "rose colored side". I suppose that is open to debate much like everything is these days.

Bottom line. We all just want to win. Mooney can continue to change this narrative by doing just that.
 
The biggest negative for me last night was that they neglected to hand out the free bojangles tickets once again! Lol
 
Good post. Disagree that it is a "small but vocal minority". Actually think if you surveyed the fan base more people would be on the FMM side than on the "rose colored side". I suppose that is open to debate much like everything is these days.

Bottom line. We all just want to win. Mooney can continue to change this narrative by doing just that.

I couldn’t disagree with you more. I think it is a very vocal minority that is pretty much confined to this board. I know many fans from my years of being around the school and I know of no one that takes the overwhelmingly negative stance of a handful on this board. This is not to say that all are 100% pleased but most have the perspective that many here do not seem to have. Great post Vault - this board exists in a little bubble and in my opinion mostly serves to reiterate and reinforce the negative opinions of 10 or so posters. In fact, I know of more people that have stopped reading this board due to the negativity than those that are unhappy with Mooney, the program, the athletic department, practice facility, and all the other issues that are complained about here over and over again.
 
Good post. Disagree that it is a "small but vocal minority". Actually think if you surveyed the fan base more people would be on the FMM side than on the "rose colored side". I suppose that is open to debate much like everything is these days.

Bottom line. We all just want to win. Mooney can continue to change this narrative by doing just that.
X2

There is an expression that says something to the effect of "don't fight the facts deal with them". Throwing aside negative versus positive support which is subjective, it becomes an exercise in evaluation of accomplishments and evaluation criteria. Unfortunately that too can become subjective. There are some who are ok with "good character" or similar types of measures. Then there are others who evaluate based upon more basic measures such as "number of times winning the conference" or "NCAA appearances".

I guess everyone chooses where to judge and weight their criteria. Me personally, I'd like to see us make the NCAA's more than once every 6.5 years of of a coach's tenure. Unreasonable expectation?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Eight Legger
I agree with the original post. We should all be 100% supportive of every coach we have, regardless of their on-court or on-field performances or any other factors. Toward that end, we should only ever offer lifetime contracts to coaches, something akin to what Supreme Court justices enjoy.
 
Eight, I luv ya. You are arguing like a 13 year old girl. No one is advocating for your straw man argument you created.
 
I couldn’t disagree with you more. I think it is a very vocal minority that is pretty much confined to this board. I know many fans from my years of being around the school and I know of no one that takes the overwhelmingly negative stance of a handful on this board. This is not to say that all are 100% pleased but most have the perspective that many here do not seem to have. Great post Vault - this board exists in a little bubble and in my opinion mostly serves to reiterate and reinforce the negative opinions of 10 or so posters. In fact, I know of more people that have stopped reading this board due to the negativity than those that are unhappy with Mooney, the program, the athletic department, practice facility, and all the other issues that are complained about here over and over again.
If one attends home games regularly then they should know that there are "more than a few Rivals posters" who are not happy with the program. You hear frustration in the stands, you hear it in the bathroom, and you hear it as you walk down the stairs to leave the stadium.

That doesn't mean that these same people aren't cheering when good things happens, because they are.
 
So what happens if we have an improved year next year (it will be almost impossible not to be improved) and win 18-20 games with maybe an NIT berth? That would be 8 years without an Ncaa berth. Do the pro Mooney folks say "Hey, we need to give Coach another year with Buck and Nick as seniors?".
 
So what happens if we have an improved year next year (it will be almost impossible not to be improved) and win 18-20 games with maybe an NIT berth? That would be 8 years without an Ncaa berth. Do the pro Mooney folks say "Hey, we need to give Coach another year with Buck and Nick as seniors?".

And what if and what if and what if. Let’s talk about that if/when that scenario happens. The same what if hypotheticals can be done with a fire Mooney strategy.

Also, I do not think it so much pro-Mooney here. It’s simply not rabid anti-Mooney as some detractors feel everyone should be.
 
The reality of the situation is that we will have CM as our coach until his contract expires, or unless he has a wildly successful season (like another Sweet 16 run), and another program hires him away. I doubt a strong finish in his final year gets him anything more than a one year extension.

No matter what our fanbase or posters to this board think or say, the odds are overwhelming that we will see no coaching changes until at least 2020, or more likely 2021. No one has the financial stomach to buy him out.

Furthermore, it is possible to not be a fan of CM without casting aspersions on the players.
 
So what happens if we have an improved year next year (it will be almost impossible not to be improved) and win 18-20 games with maybe an NIT berth? That would be 8 years without an Ncaa berth. Do the pro Mooney folks say "Hey, we need to give Coach another year with Buck and Nick as seniors?".

Let's be honest. There's a faction of supporters that will be completely fine moving forward to the following season, no matter the results.

In the event that we actually make the NCAA, the last 7 years will be completely forgotten by that faction too.
 
Last edited:
And what if and what if and what if. Let’s talk about that if/when that scenario happens.
One might argue that we are 6-7 years into this scenario and it’s no longer a “what if.”

I am not a FMM type but I’m ready for a change. I don’t think I’ve been overtly negative and generally think the folks in that camp are over the top but I can’t say I blame them.

As for recruiting, I’m unclear what recruiting disadvantage we have been at during this recent period of CM criticism. We haven’t had a scholarship to give until Solly bolted. If we’re talking about a 2019 or later recruit, I’d contend that those guys would be influenced more by what happens in a year from now, not what’s been happening of late.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RobinsHall98
If one attends home games regularly then they should know that there are "more than a few Rivals posters" who are not happy with the program. You hear frustration in the stands, you hear it in the bathroom, and you hear it as you walk down the stairs to leave the stadium.

That doesn't mean that these same people aren't cheering when good things happens, because they are.
The only thing that concerns me are the ones who are silently cheering when bad things happen...
 
  • Like
Reactions: RobinsHall98
Do we just turn the board into a PR forum to make the students, parents, and coaches feel good?

Players and parents (and even coaches), come and go. But we, the lifetime diehard fans, will always be here. Good or bad, we deserve to be heard. If someone is upset because of what they are reading on a message board, then why the hell are they reading it?

And some of you need to learn where the ignore button is. If you don't like what certain folks are saying; HIT IT. You can bet your bootie that I've got some of you on ignore.
 
What concerns me is maybe someone sends Coach GQ magazine and ruins the season . I was very happy in to see that awful shoes and also on big feet makes even worse to look at but very good to winning the games.
 
The start of this season was just really hard to stomach. This was in part due to the fact that we had a very talented team, with 2-3 newcomers (Grant, Jake and Nathan) who have very high "up-sides," and were destined to grow to be among the best at their positions in the A-10. I found it amazing that we would start the season out with a 3-12 record, given the talent we had.

The FM group got a lot of support largely because even the mot optimistic of the posters (I count myself among those) were finding it very difficult to find a silver lining after some of those early-season 20+ point losses.

Fortunately, the team has "righted the ship," since the A-10 season has gotten underway, and we have all begun to see the potential we have. To make a coaching change in the next year would only hurt our momentum in a big way. It could lead to transfers, and our key to success now will be to keep our "core players" and current nucleus, together, so that they get to know each other very well, and can anticipate each-other's every move.

I had my moments of EXTREME DOUBT, at about 3-12, but am now seeing the team starting to realize it's very real potential. My hope is that the coaching staff will be open to change and flexible enough to try out some new things (which we have not seen enough of in the last 7-13 years), so that we can continue to grow as a program. That is all I need to see to stick behind our team. We clearly have the potential to win the A-10 tourney, and the potential to lose the next two games. But it is hard to argue that we seem to be improving overall and that we have the potential to be both very good and fun to watch for the next 3+ years. Hopefully, MOST our fan-base will stick with the team and support them during this journey, and hopefully our staff will be flexible to try out some new things (like a 2-3 zone D, and more set plays to get us the best shots). We can do this is we can ALL keep an open mind and enjoy the ride.
 
Good post. Disagree that it is a "small but vocal minority". Actually think if you surveyed the fan base more people would be on the FMM side than on the "rose colored side". I suppose that is open to debate much like everything is these days.

Bottom line. We all just want to win. Mooney can continue to change this narrative by doing just that.

Better to be vocal for change than to be complicit in mediocrity or worse, apathetic.
 
If we’re talking about a 2019 or later recruit, I’d contend that those guys would be influenced more by what happens in a year from now, not what’s been happening of late.
And I would contend that recruits care more about the teams W/L record than what a bunch of old geezers say on this forum.
 
Exactly, we are losing relevance every single year we do not go to the tournament. I am not fearful of losing Mooney and the players follow. If we hire a dynamic, winning coach that is his job 1, re-recruit the current studs we have on the team. My fear is that Hardt hires a Paulsen type and we just continue on this cycle. That is my fear and not sure if Hardt can hire the right guy.
 
The irony of the "defend Mooney" crowd being absolutely silent for months when we were 3-13 and now they are all jumping back on the bandwagon after we win a couple games over some mediocre competition. #realfans have been here all along.
 
  • Like
Reactions: wr70beh
And I would contend that recruits care more about the teams W/L record than what a bunch of old geezers say on this forum.

that's one of the reasons successful programs are successful year after year, they get the recruits who like being part of a relevant program. It's also why it's so hard for struggling programs to improve.
 
The irony of the "defend Mooney" crowd being absolutely silent for months when we were 3-13 and now they are all jumping back on the bandwagon after we win a couple games over some mediocre competition. #realfans have been here all along.
The point of my recent posts has been just the opposite. After the Vermont Loss I was on the fire Mooney train, just not obsessed with it. Then the win streak started, and after the first VCU game it quieted down. Even when we lost to GMU it didn’t pick up too much. But now that we have beat VCU again, it is the only topic, as if the season is over and there is no reason to discuss or view any of our future games.

If Mooney left the Monday after our last game of this season I wouldn’t complain at all. But I don’t see the point of his future being the sole discussion today...
 
The point of my recent posts has been just the opposite. After the Vermont Loss I was on the fire Mooney train, just not obsessed with it. Then the win streak started, and after the first VCU game it quieted down. Even when we lost to GMU it didn’t pick up too much. But now that we have beat VCU again, it is the only topic, as if the season is over and there is no reason to discuss or view any of our future games.

If Mooney left the Monday after our last game of this season I wouldn’t complain at all. But I don’t see the point of his future being the sole discussion today...
Because clearly the more we talk about it, the more we win! Duh.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mcspider
The point of my recent posts has been just the opposite. After the Vermont Loss I was on the fire Mooney train, just not obsessed with it. Then the win streak started, and after the first VCU game it quieted down. Even when we lost to GMU it didn’t pick up too much. But now that we have beat VCU again, it is the only topic, as if the season is over and there is no reason to discuss or view any of our future games.

If Mooney left the Monday after our last game of this season I wouldn’t complain at all. But I don’t see the point of his future being the sole discussion today...

Who are the posters pushing their narrative now. It is the pro Mooney crowd. Which is fine, anyone can post whatever the want.

I'm not coming on here and blasting Mooney after we sweep VCU and this nice little run we are on. In fact, I think he deserves a fair amount of praise for keeping the train on the track and for the teams improvement. But don't tell me how great things are now, when we are 9-14 and our RPI/Kenpom is in the 180's.

We go up and beat a St. Bonnie's team or a Rhody team though, than maybe you pro Mooney folks can push that narrative a bit more. I have opened myself up to seeing how this season plays out now. Mooney and this team have a chance to win back some of the doubters with a strong finish to the season. As it has always been, this situation is entirely in Mooney's hands. Keep winning and the narrative will change.
 
Who are the posters pushing their narrative now. It is the pro Mooney crowd. Which is fine, anyone can post whatever the want.

I'm not coming on here and blasting Mooney after we sweep VCU and this nice little run we are on. In fact, I think he deserves a fair amount of praise for keeping the train on the track and for the teams improvement. But don't tell me how great things are now, when we are 9-14 and our RPI/Kenpom is in the 180's.

We go up and beat a St. Bonnie's team or a Rhody team though, than maybe you pro Mooney folks can push that narrative a bit more. I have opened myself up to seeing how this season plays out now. Mooney and this team have a chance to win back some of the doubters with a strong finish to the season. As it has always been, this situation is entirely in Mooney's hands. Keep winning and the narrative will change.
Fan, I concur. We have not had the success that we all had hoped for, even after the Sweet 16 run our recruiting did not really improve. I am neither a part of the "fire Mooney" crowd nor the "extend Mooney" crowd. I just want our kids to win, graduate and become productive and successful citizens of the world. My beef is the redundancy of many of our posters. Yeah, we started out 2-10 in the OOC. Not good, but why bring it up over and over? Is it going to change? Obviously not. OK, we have beaten some mediocre teams. However, that is who had on the schedule. We can't change that either. The good news is that we are beating them. Yes, VCU is not a real good team but they are our biggest BB rival and we have beaten them twice. Does that not count for something? And although Davidson is not a world beater, they are 2nd in our league with only 3 league losses and two of those were to us. Is that not an accomplishment? I think that Coach Mooney and his staff deserve a lot of credit for keeping the team focused and upbeat through some really tough times. We are playing well and I feel that there is no team in the league that we cannot beat, although we are likely to lose one or two more moving forward. Rather than continuing to beat a dead horse (i.e. poor OOC results and A-10 being down this year) why can't we all revel in the recent 6-1 run? But I am tired of posters who come on after a win like last Wednesday with the "yeah, but we were 2-10 OOC." So what? That's behind us. Let's just support our kids moving forward and leave any changes up to the new AD. After all, he is NOT going to take any input from posters on this forum. GO SPIDERS!
 
Who are the posters pushing their narrative now. It is the pro Mooney crowd. Which is fine, anyone can post whatever the want.

I'm not coming on here and blasting Mooney after we sweep VCU and this nice little run we are on. In fact, I think he deserves a fair amount of praise for keeping the train on the track and for the teams improvement. But don't tell me how great things are now, when we are 9-14 and our RPI/Kenpom is in the 180's.

We go up and beat a St. Bonnie's team or a Rhody team though, than maybe you pro Mooney folks can push that narrative a bit more. I have opened myself up to seeing how this season plays out now. Mooney and this team have a chance to win back some of the doubters with a strong finish to the season. As it has always been, this situation is entirely in Mooney's hands. Keep winning and the narrative will change.
I don't want to hear our performance the last 3 weeks or so used as a platform to defend Mooney.
I am tired of the Mooney must stay, Mooney must go debate.

I want to talk about how our situation has improved since New Year's when it was almost a given we would be playing in the Wednesday game in DC. I want to talk about what is going to happen between now and March 12th. I want to talk about the team and not the coach. After our first loss starting March 4th, I will be all ready to hear plenty about the coach, and my input may not be as positive as you think. But for now I would rather think about the games.
 
Exactly, we are losing relevance every single year we do not go to the tournament. I am not fearful of losing Mooney and the players follow. If we hire a dynamic, winning coach that is his job 1, re-recruit the current studs we have on the team. My fear is that Hardt hires a Paulsen type and we just continue on this cycle. That is my fear and not sure if Hardt can hire the right guy.
True dat, but there are always silver linings. With Paulsen or a Paulsen type we'll probably be able to beat GMU & Bucknell.;)
 
Last edited:
The irony of the "defend Mooney" crowd being absolutely silent for months when we were 3-13 and now they are all jumping back on the bandwagon after we win a couple games over some mediocre competition. #realfans have been here all along.
To add to that, evaluation can't be on the "what have you done for me lately" cliche. True evaluation has to be based upon long term results and more recent trends (say in the 7 year time frame).
 
man, that 7 year time frame gets thrown around here a lot. I'll repeat, last year's team had the 4th highest winning percentage in the last 25 years.

is the conference tournament all you guys care about? that's where the vast majority of our bids have come from. win that and all is good? lose a game there and the season's a failure?
 
7 year time frame - Is there a reason to not use it as justifiable and verifiable evaluation period? It is quantifiable and reflects 1/2 tenure and no NCAA's. Maybe no NCAA is not a critical criteria for some, but I'd say it it more than outweighs the one year isolated example of winning percentage provided in post above.
 
some of those years weren't awful though. there were reasons ... some will say excuses ... that we didn't dance. but we had some good seasons.

and yet I'll agree that we didn't recruit as well as we'd hope. in some cases it's hard to know that at the time, but when they don't pan out then they weren't great recruits.

I just find complaining about recruiting right now odd. you have to go back a ways to see the poor recruiting. I love the last few classes.

you fire a guy when things look bad going forward. when you don't see improvement. when a guy has lost the team.

to me things look really good right now. we have talent and we're playing well.
 
I just find complaining about recruiting right now odd. you have to go back a ways to see the poor recruiting. I love the last few classes.
I’m not trying to be negative but you only have to go back three years to see bad recruiting. That class had 2 of 3 recruits transfer as they just didn’t seem able to play at the A10 level. The third (JJ) is a serviceable bench player.

Things look far better now. Hopefully at least one other of the frosh prove to be starter material by their RS-SO year.

Hopefully that’s the new normal. And you can certainly make a valid argument that CM has the team pointed in a better direction. I don’t think that obligates the AD to retain him if one feels the overall production is not at the level required. Unlike some, I’m not going to lose my mind if he’s retained (which is very likely) but I think there’s a very fair argument to be made that a change could be positive. It could also be a disaster. I’m willing to take a chance on changing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SpiderGuy
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT