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Mooney Support - - From a Mooney Detractor

PhillySpider

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May 14, 2003
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So, I have not been and am not a Mooney guy. I believed it was time for us to move on. But I also know that nothing was or is going to happen with his job. I had low expectations for this year for sure. But I have taken a really close look at this season. The team exceeded my expectations. I really pegged us for bottom half of the A-10 and for an even leaner year next year. And I saw progress from Mooney - - - hard as that is to say for me.

He still does things that infuriate me nightly - - rotations, timeouts, end of game strategy, the whole rebounding thing etc. But he got the absolute most out of this group I believe. And I saw progress on some fronts on things that infuriate me too. Since the 6-6 start with different players, we haven't had a bad loss (GMU won 20 and is still playing) and have some good wins. Most notably to me was enhanced flexibility. He changed the rotation (maybe was forced to) and not only stuck with it, he continued to evolve with it. We were more flexible on defense - - both on the whole and within games, showing perhaps the sort of evolution I have been hoping for for years. We re-established our offense as a creative and efficient trademark - - something that has been missing. And we did it WITHOUT being a great (or even good) 3 point shooting team. We saw in a few games how good we can be when we shoot it well from the arc.

There are players to build around and potential star players and this year we really seemed to adjust our system to accommodate them. One of my biggest objections to Mooney has been that he turns them all into robots so concerned about his system and them doing the right thing and going to the right place etc. that they become afraid to go out and make plays. That wasn't really true at all this year. We didn't always make the plays, but the best thing I saw all year was that we seemed to play with a new found freedom and we had at least 4 guys who were not afraid to try and make plays in SDJ, TJ, Buck and Kwan. While we lose 2 of them, its a great sign that we have been so much better this year trying to allow them to play to their strengths and adjusting the system to fit the players better in particular. We also seemed to recapture some fire and joy that was missing the last couple of years especially. I think that goes with the de-emphasis on running the Mooney system so perfectly.

With all of that, I would normally be lining up to say I was wrong and we should embrace the guy more. But herein lies the problem and it leaves me confused as to where I stand. He got the most out of this group in the end and that's a good thing. But that the most we could get - - getting the most out our kids --- was third in the A-10, semi's in the tourney and an NIT bid (and 0-3 against VCU) is a problem. While we were third in standings, we weren't close to the Top 2 (and arguably not all that close to URI either) and the A-10 was clearly off this year. So yeah maybe we exceeded my expectations, but that's, at least in part, because my expectations have been beaten down by mediocrity.

So, while I think he can coach (despite the many things I don't love about his coaching) and coach pretty well (he's way way closer to the Top of A-10 than the bottom), I am still not sure where that leaves us. This all points to the recruiting problem. And lets not sugar coat it - - its a problem. We have 2 great freshman this year and one we hope is good but cant really know since he didn't play. And we have Kwan. That's really three players in the system who we know can play at this level. After that we are hoping and our best hope is that there are 1-2 more (GG and Solly). After that we know the rest cant really do a whole lot (JJ is a nice role (7th or 8th guy) player. We had two all-time players this year and the lack of more good players with experience (and size) limited us to where we are now. Hard to imagine we will be better next year without TJ and SDJ. GG and Solly could be great and we won't really be at that level. But we need to see some recruiting wins consistently. This one class can't be all there is. We need classes like this year in and year out. Where guys like Nick barely get their feet wet as freshman because there are equivalent (or better) guys ahead of him who are also more experienced and guys like Buck DON'T win rookie of the year, not because they don't have the talent but because they cant get enough playing time to put up the numbers!

There are three areas for recruiting - - normal 4 yr players, transfers and grad transfers. I would say we haven't been consistent enough with the first and we have been a bust of late with the latter 2 (save the obvious of TJ 4 years ago). We need to see all three areas improve. Next years freshman class doesn't look like its the equivalent of this years, but we will have to wait and see. But if its another one man class, the promise of this year's class will wane due to lack of support over the long haul and the pressure on getting a high level next class will be immense in my view. Solly is coming in next year (transfer in essence) and we'll see - - I'd point to how much help was Marshall this year and after how much hype - - before we get to calling Solly a beast. And when (if) we are a good team with a hole to fill, we need to be able to attract some grad transfers with some pedigree! We questioned why Kwesi played 10 min a game at Northeastern and now we know why! We need guys we know can play!

So, I am honestly a good deal higher on his coaching than I was a year ago, but more concerned about recruiting than I was a year ago (given the incoming freshman class doesn't measure up to this class and our more recent transfers and grad transfers were a bust). If it were up to me, I'd give him another year off this one - - and I am sure the University will give him that and more barring a 6-24 debacle next year (which I don't see coming), but overachieving with the group he has next year won't be my criteria - - I need to see players coming in who are better than the players we have seen coming in. Period. We may not hit on all three areas, but we need to hit at a much higher level and a much higher rate than we have seen.
 
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Here is maybe another way to look at whether or not you support Mooney.

If another school came after Mooney, lets say California - which just opened today because Martin there has left for Missouri - do you think the school should offer an extension or raise to keep Mooney or stay put and if Mooney wants to leave, let him leave.

Point being - I think if you are okay with another school taking Mooney and don't want to offer anything to keep him, then you might as well get rid of him. Your basically saying its time to move on.

But if you think he is the guy for UR and the future, then you fight to keep him - which would likely mean a mulit year extension and more money.
 
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Not the easiest thing I've ever read, but I believe he was trying to convince himself
 
Here is a optimistic view as I am a Libra. Mooney did have a few solid players who did not get in. (Bernard) which our team probably would been playing somewhere in the dance had he stayed. Don't forget he was actually here. But was turned down by higher powers that be. So CM did find a few gems with the restraints. But lets face it we are a academic first school that happens to play in a high level conference by schools like us standards. We don't step on anybody toes don't cause any friction or controversy we are UR smart good guys.
 
Here is maybe another way to look at whether or not you support Mooney.

If another school came after Mooney, lets say California - which just opened today because Martin there has left for Missouri - do you think the school should offer an extension or raise to keep Mooney or stay put and if Mooney wants to leave, let him leave.

Point being - I think if you are okay with another school taking Mooney and don't want to offer anything to keep him, then you might as well get rid of him. Your basically saying its time to move on.

But if you think he is the guy for UR and the future, then you fight to keep him - which would likely mean a mulit year extension and more money.

Or (C), pay someone to take him.
 
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Long time ago spent my time in the biology, chemistry, and physics buildings. Now I guess is the Gottwald Science building.
 
At this point in his coaching life I don't see Chris going west of the Missippi, except maybe Texas.
Why? Because he has spent years recruiting and getting known in the east- down to Florida.
Going west would mean re-establishing new AAU and HS coaches.
If he goes anywhere, it would be a southern or eastern conference school.
 
At this point in his coaching life I don't see Chris going west of the Missippi, except maybe Texas.
Why? Because he has spent years recruiting and getting known in the east- down to Florida.
Going west would mean re-establishing new AAU and HS coaches.
If he goes anywhere, it would be a southern or eastern conference school.
Some logic to this, but if it's a moderate to upper profile P5 school, that alone would change how he has to recruit, it would likely be easier than recruiting to UR.
 
If he stays, I root for this year to be our floor moving forward. If he leaves, I'll be excited about a new chapter. I would not give him an extension, however.

Either way, I hope we are dancing more often than not in the next decade.
 
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Some logic to this, but if it's a moderate to upper profile P5 school, that alone would change how he has to recruit, it would likely be easier than recruiting to UR.
It's just my theory on veteran coaches. I suppose a P5 could lure him away with money but I can't think of a winning veteran coach that has succeeded going from one coast to the other. Can you?
 
It's just my theory on veteran coaches. I suppose a P5 could lure him away with money but I can't think of a winning veteran coach that has succeeded going from one coast to the other. Can you?
Idk, obviously its situational and thus one can't make a blanket assumption. But agree, I can't think of many coaches who have done this. Herb Sendek? 10 years at NC State then went to ASU. Sean Miller from Xavier to Arizona? I think they are winning veteran coaches but may depend on how you define veteran.
 
Philly, Thanks for the long but thoughtful and insightful post.

I believe you did a nice job of finding some "silver-linings" to our season and nicely pointed out some very positive changes on the team (due to either CM, his staff, the new players, or maybe all three factors).

I agree that we did make better use of our player's strengths and we did show more flexibility on defense (mixing up the "man" D with the prior D). I also believe that we brought in a great freshman class this past season, so we now know that the potential to recruit well is clearly present in this staff. If GG had been able to play the entire season we would have been even better.

The biggest knock on CM in the past few seasons had been about flexibility and stubbornness. However, this season we clearly saw more flexibility and less stubbornness. Best of all, we saw some great chemistry and passion on this team and that is probably as much due to recruiting as it is to coaching. On both counts (recruiting and coaching) this has to be seen as an "up-tick" year, providing some reasons for optimism. Thanks to both the coaches and players for their stellar efforts and a very good overall season.

Let's take a moment to savor the good feelings and then think about how nice it would be to keep this positive momentum going for a few more games!
 
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I spent my four years cooped up in Gottwald.

Long time ago spent my time in the biology, chemistry, and physics buildings. Now I guess is the Gottwald Science building.

Let me guess. Astrology and Alchemy, respectively?

JK, of course. Your posts are insightful, bright, and informative, and both of you are valued and much-admired contributors to this board, despite the fact that you might from time to time fail to appreciate the value of a full and complete response.

Shall I continue?
 
TLDR: Mooney is closer to the top of the A10 than the bottom in terms of coaching, but has serious recruiting issues.

I have been saying this for years.

+1000, right here. The problem is not Mooney's coaching, the problem has always been his less than stellar recruiting efforts. He is probably hitting on about 50% of recruits, if we want to go to NCAA consistently, that figures needs to be about 75% or greater.

I do give him credit for making a lot of changes to his schemes this year to adapt to the team that he had. Maybe next year, he can figure out an end of game play other than having your PG dribble the ball out and try to create a shot while the other 4 players stand around like statues (except for one high ball screen). That would be nice.
 
Mooney has his flaws, but he has consistently gotten more with less from his team. So as noted, we had to get more with more. If we just hit on 2 starter quality recruits each year, we are generally going to have a rotation of 8 guys. He needs to balance classes out quite a bit and ensure that his two new starters each year aren't strictly guards, or guards masking as forwards.
 
Mooney has his flaws, but he has consistently gotten more with less from his team. So as noted, we had to get more with more. If we just hit on 2 starter quality recruits each year, we are generally going to have a rotation of 8 guys. He needs to balance classes out quite a bit and ensure that his two new starters each year aren't strictly guards, or guards masking as forwards.
Good recruiting breeds good recruiting. Kids want to play with other good players.
 
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Maybe Mooney's problem was playing basketball in the first place, maybe he should have just been the student manager....
 
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