Mens: Belmont @ RC - Sat 12/14 6pm ESPN+

[SpiderTrap]

Butler is a good one - and likely would have needed the extra time, but given it was early Mooney years - they might have pressed him to play as a frosh. Agree - medical are different.

Bucknor is a good one - Beilein redshirted him, but Jermaine really shined under JW. So mix of both there. And after watching Bucknor play, I am not sure he would have been a good fit in Beilein system or would have had same success he did under JW and then I think one year Mooney? He was a key reserve on the 04 NCAA team. Then became a double digit scorer the next 2 years.

 

[spiderman]

we redshirted Bucknor?
if so and he scored 32 total points in 20 games his next year, I assume we thought he was a bust?

 

[VT4700]

sorry VT. just calling it like I see it. super strong top 5. Goose was a nice #6. Burton played a decent amount because there was no #7.
you're telling me Wojcik was real strong depth that year with his 3 ppg? who else on 2019-20 team you want to reminisce about? we weren't deep. we lacked talent further down the roster after Burton.

it appears we're not talented or deep this year too, and we certainly don't have the top 5 that we had in 2019-20. but going into the season we thought we had talent and depth. Dusan was a scorer. AP was a UConn recruit. GW3 from Michigan. we were worried how to find enough time for all the talent we had.

I still hope freshman Burton may be a good comp for JRob. both are super athletic. Robinson maybe even moreso. Burton didn't come in as a shooter.

"Burton played a decent amount because there was no 7". What the heck, Sman? Why the Burton hate all of a sudden?

Absolutely, Wojcik was a solid 8th in rotation guy for us. You always talk about best guys play, even if it narrows your rotation. So, how many ppg would you expect a guy with the 8th most minutes to average. And, he did great while Blake was out, helping us go 4-2, including a 24 minute, 11 point ( 3-4 from 3) game in a win over Lasalle. That is 100% the definition of good basketball depth, when your 8th guy can give you that when a starter is injured.

 

[GKiller]

Butler is a good one - and likely would have needed the extra time, but given it was early Mooney years - they might have pressed him to play as a frosh. Agree - medical are different.

Bucknor is a good one - Beilein redshirted him, but Jermaine really shined under JW. So mix of both there. And after watching Bucknor play, I am not sure he would have been a good fit in Beilein system or would have had same success he did under JW and then I think one year Mooney? He was a key reserve on the 04 NCAA team. Then became a double digit scorer the next 2 years.

Nah he would have absolutely crushed it under Beilein. That was perhaps my biggest beef with Ol' Jer. While he had role under Ol' Jer early on, he misued Buck & didn't play him enough. Think he tried to make Buck a little more of a bruiser. he was way more versatile imo. Now Bucknor was easily 1 of mt all time fav playters so call me biased, but it's still true.

I actually ran into Buck early during that NCAA season. Asked him why not playing more. He's a team guy so he wasn't going to give off bad vibes, but he gave me the idk arms and a sly look like I wish I knew.

we needed some analytics on Bucknor. we were a better team when he played more. Jerry almost f'd up that season with his over reliance with Daon Merritt at point and Buck. That team was a Cadillac. Ol' Jer said so himself. I think there was more to get from that team honestly. But at same time he figured it out to some extent eventually (turning Daon into role backup) & we went to NCAA, he won at Kansas etc. so he still gets some credit. and it's heightened even more when u look at Mooney stuggles.

 

[spider23]

but I'm not expecting we'll be heavy in portal next off season. 1. Moon comments. 2. Kirby Mooney and Graham will both be on scholarship with 15 count max roster. Unless they grandfather those in tbd. 3. u got a big class of frosh that will be pointed to as Next Best Class. we will start to hear that a little.

I had not thought much ahead to next season yet, though this one is quickly dimming my interest. Your bring up some interesting points. I do think K. Mooney on the roster is pretty assured. If Graham comes back too ( I could see him transferring down if he values playing in games), I just think that means they will be the only walk ons, so we will have our typical 13 scholarship guys - and probably 15 as I'm sure triumvirate will push that through. We won't have the other 3-4 walk ons we typically have. Could reach a point where Boyden, Peter, and Giper have to suit up for practice.

 

[GKiller]

we redshirted Bucknor?
if so and he scored 32 total points in 20 games his next year, I assume we thought he was a bust?

Yes, Beilein recruit. Redshirted as freshman under him. The team went to A10 champiosnhip game.

I did not. GKiller has good player evaluation tho. Available for hire. See my post above. Bucknor was young (17) as a freshman too. But also we had much better teams and players back then. This team is no comparison.

 

[GKiller]

I had not thought much ahead to next season yet, though this one is quickly dimming my interest. Your bring up some interesting points. I do think K. Mooney on the roster is pretty assured. If Graham comes back too ( I could see him transferring down if he values playing in games), I just think that means they will be the only walk ons, so we will have our typical 13 scholarship guys - and probably 15 as I'm sure triumvirate will push that through. We won't have the other 3-4 walk ons we typically have. Could reach a point where Boyden, Peter, and Giper have to suit up for practice.

Well personally I don't like kicking off players, so I hope the walk ons can be grandfathered in and stick. But it doesn't sound like that will happen idk. I've already heard of kids in other sports looking for new school due to roster caps.

but if the 15 roster cap exists, 100% we should be filling with legit scholarship type players, not walk ons. Numbers game. We don't have the luxury of not playing the numbers game with Moon's too low hit rate. So u would think we would at minimum be looking to fill with transfer portal guys for those walk on spots. But I don't see us doing that not with Mooney nephew on team and probably not Graham either unless it's by his choice. We'll see. Plus the walk on Weaver technically has another year of eligibility too but could be planning to graduate & move on. So if we're light on transfer portal next offseason it's just 1 more reason to hear how the future is these 5 frosh.

 

[SFspidur]

Ooh...it's ugly sweater game!

 

[MDspider8]

don't expect it, but would love JOC to pose the question:
"we heard great things about the 2 redshirted freshmen this summer. how are they progressing and is there any talk about taking off their redshirts to see if they can help?"

I'll try to ask this during the next behind the web. About a 5% chance of Bob actually asking Mooney, but it's worth a shot. Maybe I can spruce it up a bit and get him to bite.

 

[spider23]

We don't have the luxury of not playing the numbers game with Moon's too low hit rate.

The problem with this idea is: Moon likely thinks he is bringing in guys that can play, so he thinks his 13 are plenty. And, the other part of that equation, let's say he knows player 12 and 13 are stretches, if he had to go there is he really going to be able to go to player 14 and 15 as legit contributors?

 

[spider23]

I'll try to ask this during the next behind the web. About a 5% chance of Bob actually asking Mooney, but it's worth a shot. Maybe I can spruce it up a bit and get him to bite.

I'll give it a try: Hey Bob and Moon, great season by dem EAGLES so far this year, can't believe Saquon may break the all time rushing record. And that Tush Push is unstoppable! Kind of thought the rushing record was like your Richmond all time wins record, Out of Reach!!

By the Way PUT JROB in now!!!!!

Let me know how that works.

 

[GKiller]

I'll try to ask this during the next behind the web. About a 5% chance of Bob actually asking Mooney, but it's worth a shot. Maybe I can spruce it up a bit and get him to bite.

Do they actually take calls? That's the only way. But no idea how those work these days. I just doubt it except if Gary or Ivan r still around. If Philly Bob is taking them off write ins, you'll get half the question edited & asked. The softball half will be the question to Moon...."how are they progressing"

 

[GKiller]

The problem with this idea is: Moon likely thinks he is bringing in guys that can play, so he thinks his 13 are plenty. And, the other part of that equation, let's say he knows player 12 and 13 are stretches, if he had to go there is he really going to be able to go to player 14 and 15 as legit contributors?

But that's exactly why he needs math on his side. Find the best rotation out of 15 not 13. The last couple might be stretches but u hit on a guy maybe u weren't sure about. I'm pretty sure it's not going to be a Kirby Mooney.

I fully expect U of R is going to use all 15 ships available. I don't think we'll have "walk ons" and use less than allotted 15 ships. But in short term I expect the ships will go to our walk ons. Which doesn't help your chances of improving in short term either.

 

[MDspider8]

Do they actually take calls? That's the only way. But no idea how those work these days. I just doubt it except if Gary or Ivan r still around. If Philly Bob is taking them off write ins, you'll get half the question edited & asked. The softball half will be the question to Moon...."how are they progressing"

Nah, just texts and emails. Ivan gets a question every show, "What can you tell us about X team?" Riveting.

I've had questions answered though, so maybe we'll get lucky.

 

[spiderman]

Why the Burton hate all of a sudden?

no idea how you can take anything I wrote as Burton hate. he's a great Spider. I'm saying Burton didn't have much competition for bench playing time as a freshman forward.

we had 11 scholarship guys total. guards off the bench were Goose and Wojcik. forwards besides Burton? that was Verbinskis and Koureissi. it's likely JRob or McG play on that team too if they were in Burton's spot. it's about opportunity.

we THOUGHT we had a ton of talent at forward this year with Roche, AP, Dusan and Tanner. so far it hasn't panned out. we may have been wrong. but that's the explanation of the redshirts.

 

[GKiller]

Nah, just texts and emails. Ivan gets a question every show, "What can you tell us about X team?" Riveting.

I've had questions answered though, so maybe we'll get lucky.

I miss Gary. Didn't he work in the D Hall, or the little fast food place we had in the Commons? Someone remind me of the name I'm blanking.

 

[97spiderfan]

Nah, just texts and emails. Ivan gets a question every show, "What can you tell us about X team?" Riveting.

I've had questions answered though, so maybe we'll get lucky.

The coaches show is so stale. They roll out the same format they have for the past 20 years. This should be one of the ways we really seek to elicit fan engagement, instead it is almost the opposite because Bob has made it so boring with his routine of asking the same softball, feel good questions every week. Mooney gives his same canned answers every year. And then let the same "fan" Ivan ask a slightly different iteration of the same question he asks every week. Must be in both of their contracts to do a coaches show, so they both are simply checking that box.

 

[SpiderTrap]

Nah he would have absolutely crushed it under Beilein. That was perhaps my biggest beef with Ol' Jer. While he had role under Ol' Jer early on, he misued Buck & didn't play him enough. Think he tried to make Buck a little more of a bruiser. he was way more versatile imo. Now Bucknor was easily 1 of mt all time fav playters so call me biased, but it's still true.

I actually ran into Buck early during that NCAA season. Asked him why not playing more. He's a team guy so he wasn't going to give off bad vibes, but he gave me the idk arms and a sly look like I wish I knew.

we needed some analytics on Bucknor. we were a better team when he played more. Jerry almost f'd up that season with his over reliance with Daon Merritt at point and Buck. That team was a Cadillac. Ol' Jer said so himself. I think there was more to get from that team honestly. But at same time he figured it out to some extent eventually (turning Daon into role backup) & we went to NCAA, he won at Kansas etc. so he still gets some credit. and it's heightened even more when u look at Mooney stuggles.

Possibly - maybe Bucknor would have developed differently under Beilein as well. As JB was more finesse and shoot more 3's while JW was more bruiser as you say - but I never though Bucknor was that athletic, which is why he fit into that bruiser role. Always saw him - again, under JW - playing that stretch 4 position or maybe some 3 on the wing, where he could post up and at times step out and hit a 3. I think under JB - he would be shooting all 3's and we would have missed some of his strength inside (had it developed under JB).

He was a very good player for us. And a key player on that 04 NCAA team. Think he played about 15 minutes off the bench and occasionally had some big games for us. Key piece off the bench for us that year.

 

[kneepadmckinney]

I'm saying that a month ago nobody thought, as you put it, "we probably have our least talented team during Mooney's tenure".
yes, Mooney could come to the decision that he and everyone else was totally wrong on AP and Dusan. JRob and McG are better. let's pivot.

or he might still believe Dusan and AP are good players who have gotten off to a poor start. I don't know. heck, JRob and McG might also be awful in practice, getting dominated by D'Entremont. might be total busts. I don't know! we'll have to wait and see. but I'm not writing them off just because we haven't burned their shirts yet.

I think this is probably more likely the case -- that Dusan, Tanner, and AP are performing well below expectation. So at the time the decision was made, the feedback was probably -- it's likely you are going to be behind guys. So they made that decision. And then the games happened.

Yes we could pivot now, but to what end? A .500 season? I'd rather take all the medicine this year and recalibrate next year.

 

[97spiderfan]

I think this is probably more likely the case -- that Dusan, Tanner, and AP are performing well below expectation. So at the time the decision was made, the feedback was probably -- it's likely you are going to be behind guys. So they made that decision. And then the games happened.

Yes we could pivot now, but to what end? A .500 season? I'd rather take all the medicine this year and recalibrate next year.

Kneepad, not sure where you are going regarding taking all of our medicine this year.

But as I see it right now, we have a team that is not going to be playing postseason ball. In most similar situations, teams once they acknowledge that fact, the decision is usually to play your younger players, see what you have in them, so you can start planning for next year. We probably aren't there yet as the season is still not half over, but at some point, we are going to be there.

 

[VT4700]

I think this is probably more likely the case -- that Dusan, Tanner, and AP are performing well below expectation. So at the time the decision was made, the feedback was probably -- it's likely you are going to be behind guys. So they made that decision. And then the games happened.

Yes we could pivot now, but to what end? A .500 season? I'd rather take all the medicine this year and recalibrate next year.

That's the risk and in my opinion the foolishness of redshirting. So, our freshmen might be better and help us, but why bother now? Am I the only one who thinks that is ridiculous???

 

[SpiderGuy]

Kneepad, not sure where you are going regarding taking all of our medicine this year.

But as I see it right now, we have a team that is not going to be playing postseason ball. In most similar situations, teams once they acknowledge that fact, the decision is usually to play your younger players, see what you have in them, so you can start planning for next year. We probably aren't there yet as the season is still not half over, but at some point, we are going to be there.

Unless there is a quick metamorphosis, I'm afraid what you see in OOC is what you'll see in conference play. I really can't believe we've fallen this far this quickly. I realize we lost a lot of pieces from last year, but it's incumbent upon the guy at the top to restock & rebuild successfully if we are truly a winning program. So far the results are not good.

 

[spider23]

I really think playing a full season of D1 basketball, getting aclimated to speed of game (and no does not happen in practice, especially our practice), learning how to deal with the long season, academics on the bus, the physicality, the grind - would all help if they played minutes this year. I guess we want them to hit the "freshman wall" next season half way through conference play. OH yeah, Mr. Long game mediocrity is ok with that b/c we are building up for 26-27 and 27-28 seasons.

 

[Spiders4ever]

I miss Gary. Didn't he work in the D Hall, or the little fast food place we had in the Commons? Someone remind me of the name I'm blanking.

He worked at Phils at one time.

 

[MrTbone]

Non-medical? Very few. I can’t think of one, maybe someone who made starting rotation in junior/senior year. Nelson was one but hardly impressed.

There have been some medicals like Grant.

 

[MrTbone]

I miss Gary. Didn't he work in the D Hall, or the little fast food place we had in the Commons? Someone remind me of the name I'm blanking.

Drydock Charlie?

 

[GKiller]

Drydock Charlie?

Had to google that & it came up! TY I probably was thinking of Charlie.

& dry dock much better name btw. B4 my time, was the Pier in my day. But somebody had to remind me off board. Disappointed nobody else got that on here.

 

[GKiller]

He worked at Phils at one time.

Thx. Thought Gary was at UR at one time too but maybe not.

In my book…

Gary>Ivan

No question about that Bob.

Though gotta give it up to Ivan for the longevity too.

 

[GKiller]

That's the risk and in my opinion the foolishness of redshirting. So, our freshmen might be better and help us, but why bother now? Am I the only one who thinks that is ridiculous???

Tho at a point it does become why bother.

I’ve stated another valid reason.

Mooney wants the large class to build up as much as he can. So in 3 years we may get 1-2 years of their best together. Even tho ncaa bid will be about 50/50 at best during those 1-2 years. That’s his playbook if they stick around & at least 3 out of the 5 are very good a10 players.

Most coaches can’t or wouldn’t do it. Mooney can.

 

[MrTbone]

Had to google that & it came up! TY I probably was thinking of Charlie.

& dry dock much better name btw. B4 my time, was the Pier in my day. But somebody had to remind me off board. Disappointed nobody else got that on here.

Next thing you’re gonna tell me is that you don’t remember the marsh hall donkey.