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"It's Frustrating"

9

9Legs

Assistant Coach
Mar 4, 2005
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Quote from today's RTD
"It's frustrating," Mooney said. "Obviously, there's some encouraging signs, but at this point it's frustrating. You just want it for the guys so we can be happier in the locker room and carry some of the momentum. We've been close in just about every game on the road but haven't been able to finish too many."

Okay Coach, we fans understand "FRUSTRATING" but what are you going to do about it? You are the head coach not a casual bystander. You need to accept responsibility and accountability for the state of our program and tell the stakeholders what you are going to do to fix it. No more meaningless drivel! We are 10 years into your regime, it's time for some changes in all aspects of the program. What you are doing isn't working!
 
So this game was frustrating, it would be nice for once to see some accountability that the play on the road and in the losses is bad. There always seems to be some factor that caused us to lose, instead of it being - hey, we sucked in this game, we are going to fix it and get better.

After LaSalle, it just wasn't enough
"Down the stretch, I thought we played it out well," said Mooney. "We lengthened the game, we fouled the right guys. I thought we didn't just foul. We tried to get turnovers. Just not enough, you know? Just not enough."

After Dayton, we just need to get over the hump
"Our defense got tighter," said UR coach Chris Mooney. "That's was the biggest thing, our defense, and then we were able to make shots. ... We put ourselves in position to win, but unfortunately, a familiar result.
"I don't know if it's finishing, but we've got to find a way to get over that hump."

GW was a confidence builder
"I think we really need to use this as a way to infuse some confidence because (GW) is a really good team. They won't lose very often here," UR coach Chris Mooney said.
"I think rather than having it take the wind out of your sails, it can have the opposite effect of letting us know that we're good enough to play with anybody."

Northeastern we were tentative
"I wish we had finished the game like I feel like we started it," said UR coach Chris Mooney. "We had a very good first half. I thought we were a little bit tentative down the stretch and when you are, you don't get as many easy baskets. ... We lacked a little aggression and it could have been cause we were tentative down the stretch

Jmu had us looking for answers
"I wish I knew the exact answer," Mooney said. "We have to continue to work as hard as we can, find some toughness and find some grit as a foundation to win some games. We have been close, but in the end that doesn't matter."

Odu, was the first half
"First half, I thought (there were some) guys pressing a little bit and not playing together enough," UR coach Chris Mooney said.
"Just trying to force things, force the issue a little bit. ... I hope we can get past (that) pretty early. I thought we just haven't given ourselves a good enough chance to find a good rhythm."

Nc state, was their defense and our defense
"They started switching their defense, playing some zone, a little triangle-and-two," Richmond coach Chris Mooney said of the second half. "I thought we were able to get off good shots. I thought we rushed a couple, maybe. In a game like that, we didn't need to because we were sharing the ball well.
"The bottom line is we didn't defend them all night."

Uni was a slow start and maybe the only mention of having to be better
"That's a collective issue right there, from myself and the coaches to the players, just making sure we come out of the gates with more fire and intensity, the same fire and intensity we had in the second half."

This post was edited on 2/15 12:32 PM by ur2K
 
Is it just me, or does it appear to others that we make too many offensive passes? I watched the game yesterday and saw open shooters pass the ball several times, but when the shot was finally made it was no better or worse than the player that started the passes rather than shooting. I certainly understand making several passes to get an open shot, but it appears we are just passing for passing sake.
Will one of you explain this to me?
 
Anna, that is true and I agree with you. The problem is that only 3 guys can shoot. The rest are incapable.
 
The over-passing started in earnest toward the end of the OOC/beginning of A-10 play. We had been really stagnant against the zone, and the JMU game was the icing on the cake for that. Then it was like we spent a week doing nothing but passing in practice and Mooney told them "No one shoots until everyone touches the ball twice."

The result has been a lot of odd looking passes, albeit quick ones. It has seemed very forced, though, and as Annap said, it hasn't really resulted in better looks. IMO, we do not reverse the ball nearly enough, and most of the passes we make are predictable. Unless Cline is involved, everyone in the arena knows where the next pass is going. We rarely ball fake or shot fake, and when we do, it often results in a turnover. Seems like that is something we are also trying to force, and it comes across like we haven't practiced that stuff enough. When guys try to do it in a game, they freeze up or get confused.
 
Originally posted by SpiderK:
Anna, that is true and I agree with you. The problem is that only 3 guys can shoot. The rest are incapable.
Click to expand...
I think it's a 2 part answer - 1) You are correct on limited shooters and 2) The offensive system (exceptions but basically the system / philosophy).

As I watched yesterday...um...certain players were open many times and bypassed obvious shots...just guessing that is a confidence factor.
 
We also drive and kick out to 3 a lot. A lot of teams we play either drive and dish to the big guy or hit a guy cutting into the lane.

Because of this we don't get as easy as looks and we falter throughout.
 
We also have a problem finishing at the rim. How many chippys did we miss inside yesterday? Enough to have easily won the game.
 
Anna- Guy & 26. Why don't we do any of the Princeton offense anymore. If nothing else, DT and TD can use that speed to make quick back door cuts to the basket. Cline looks like he would be a good passer to the back door cut from the foul line area. Every now and then they will be open for an easy shot, but would at least be relevant to the offense and make a defender account for them. As it is now they are unguarded on the perimeter. I understand the weakness of that is that DT has a hard time finishing and neither can make free throws. Just a thought.

This post was edited on 2/15 4:03 PM by SpiderK

This post was edited on 2/15 9:42 PM by SpiderK
 
Seems like we always leave 8-10 points (or more) hanging on the rim on missed lay-ins that should be gimmes. But according to fan2011's research, we are far and away the best team in the A-10 at shooting percentage on lay-ins/layups and dunks. I don't regularly watch other college games start to finish, so maybe everyone else really is worse than we are, but it seems crazy if that's the case.
 
Great summary by ur2k above.

And yes, the overall lack of 'ownership' of our modest redults is pretty disappointing.
 
Originally posted by Eight Legger:
Seems like we always leave 8-10 points (or more) hanging on the rim on missed lay-ins that should be gimmes. But according to fan2011's research, we are far and away the best team in the A-10 at shooting percentage on lay-ins/layups and dunks. I don't regularly watch other college games start to finish, so maybe everyone else really is worse than we are, but it seems crazy if that's the case.
Click to expand...
I watched the game and saw a lot of balls rim out yesterday. I decided to take a look at ESPN's play-by-play info from the game to see what our 'at-the-rim' numbers looked like. The most interesting thing I found was that even though TA and Cline took 19 combined 2pt shot attempts, the scorer's table only classified 3 of their shots as either a layup, dunk or tip in. TA had one made dunk and Cline had 2 missed layups. The other 16 2-pointers they took were classified as jumpers. In total, our team took 11 shots that were classified as layups, dunks or tip-ins, and we only made 5 of them (we would have needed to hit 8 to get our average). GMU took 6 at-the-rim shots and made all of them.

Judging by the numbers at Hoop-math.com it seems like we usually take ~15 shots at-the-rim per game, and we usually make ~70% of them. After looking through the play-by-play data myself, I think we probably also take many shots ~3-6 feet from the rim that aren't classified as layups, dunks or tip-ins even though they are taken pretty close to the rim. These are the shots that tend to bounce out I think, and they aren't picked up in the 'shots at the rim' calculation.

I guess the guys at hoop-math have to work with the play-by-play data, and they have to go by what the scorer's table decides is a layup, dunk, etc. Our 2pt jumper % is only 39%.
 
Interesting, 2011. Thanks. That makes more sens. I was tempted to take a look at that same thing at some point. Most of the shots we miss near the rim seem like obvious layups, but maybe they are getting classified differently (incorrectly).
 
I decided to break down our players shot selections. Here I show the average number of shots taken per game and the average number of shots made per game (according to hoop-math.com)

At-the-rim:
KA: 2.0 - 3.2
TA: 2.7 - 3.8
SDJ: 0.6 - 1.0
Cline: 1.6 - 2.0
ANO: 1.5 - 2.1
TD: 1.2 - 1.7
DT: 0.5 - 0.8

2pt Jumpers:
KA: 2.0 - 5.0
TA: 1.4 - 3.6
SDJ: 0.7 - 2.0
Cline: 1.5 - 3.0
ANO: 0.4 - 1.5
TD: 0.4 - 1.2
DT: 0.2 - 0.6

3pt Shots:
KA: 1.8 - 4.8
TA: 0.5 - 1.8
SDJ: 2.0 - 5.3
Cline: 1.2 - 3.1
ANO: 0.5 - 1.5
TD: 0.2 - 0.6
DT: 0.1 - 1.1
 
Only 9 shots a game for Terry. I know he's missed some recently he should have made, but they are really good looks and it helps to open the floor up.

And nearly 40% of TJ shots are 3 pointers. Interesting.

2011, thanks for the breakdown, very interesting to see many things posters have talked about.
 
2011 so they are calling TA's little tear drops jump shots? That makes sense, I've never seen so many at the hoop shots rim out. I've thought he needed to use the backboard more
 
Is there a stat for how many open shots we pass up per possession before actually taking a shot? That's one of my biggest frustrations. It seems like we run a play at the beginning of a possession and it works because someone gets open early in the set only to pass on pulling the trigger. It also looks like that is many times our best look at the basket...but no shot taken. Is it lack of confidence or the player is not ready when they get open giving defense time to close.
 
Just a thought, but it would neat to see Shawndre (a real point guard), Kendall, TJ, Terry, and Josh play together. All can shoot and should be given the freedom to do so.
smile.r191677.gif
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Originally posted by Ulla1:
Just a thought, but it would neat to see Shawndre (a real point guard), Kendall, TJ, Terry, and Josh play together. All can shoot and should be given the freedom to do so.
smile.r191677.gif
.
Click to expand...
It would be a good shooting team but it would get pushed around in the A10.
 
How do you know that?

So you think we take our 2 most physical players off the court and we won't rebound even worse?
 
The margin would probably be worse but we'd still be losing the rebound battle virtually every game. However, the trade off for two guys that can shoot threes might be worth it. I still believe a lot of rebounding is want to not just size.
 
You're making my point. Trey is our best rebounder.

FWIW, my only adjustment to Ulla's lineup is Trey for Josh. I'm not ready to anoint Josh as a quality A10 starter because he hit a few shots against Mason like others are.

At this point, he's just a role player who is logging extra minutes because Alonzo got hurt.

If we are going to be any good the next 2 years, Josh will be nothing more than a solid 2nd or 3rd guy off the bench. If he's a starter, we've got some real problems, IMO.
 
Rebounding is want to and to a degree scheme. I find it interesting that VMI leads the SoCon in rebounding and 3s taken.
 
The key is for us to miss badly when we shoot, so that the rebounds bounce way out to the top of the key or to the corners, where all of our guys are.
 
But you look at Trey as a A10 starter? He cannot shoot, Hustles, plays good defense he's now our second best rebounder. Terry is our best even before losing ANO. The reality is trying almost anything isn't going to make any difference with this year's outcome. Playing Josh may help us find out where he might be next year.
 
You're right. We're probably splitting hairs.

But yes, I view Trey as more of an A10 Starter than Josh right now. I do.
 
I love Trey's hustle. My only complaint is did he really work on his shot in the off season? He may be one of the more athletic players on the team. He plays good defense. His ball handling has improved. Did he take a few hundred shots daily in the off season I doubt it. AND if he doesn't do it this off season he should be a role player at best next year.
 
I-M-UR, the chances Trey didn't work on his jump shot are slim, but I like Mo's theory about baseball. In all seriousness though, when you have bad form you have to put up more shots to get better. Problem is I'm not sure if there are enough hours in the day to fix Trey and Deion's forms right now
 
Originally posted by MolivaManiac:
You're making my point. Trey is our best rebounder.

FWIW, my only adjustment to Ulla's lineup is Trey for Josh. I'm not ready to anoint Josh as a quality A10 starter because he hit a few shots against Mason like others are.

At this point, he's just a role player who is logging extra minutes because Alonzo got hurt.

If we are going to be any good the next 2 years, Josh will be nothing more than a solid 2nd or 3rd guy off the bench. If he's a starter, we've got some real problems, IMO.
Click to expand...
I have liked what I have seen from Josh the past few games. He has not only hit outside shots, he had 9 rebounds against Fordham. The jury is still out on how good he actually is since we have not seen him get extended minutes for more than the past few games. If we compare stats between JJ, Trey and DT over the past 3 games (since ANO was injured) we get an interesting comparison. Take these stats with a grain of salt since the sample size is very low.

Points per 40 minutes
JJ: 13.8
TD: 4.7
DT: 4.8

Offensive rebounds per 40 minutes
JJ: 2.9
TD: 2.8
DT: 1.1

Defensive rebounds per 40 minutes
JJ: 5.1
TD: 5.1
DT: 4.3

JJ's rebounding numbers are boosted by his 9 rebound Fordham game, and there is more to defense than rebounding so these numbers are nowhere near the full story. If JJ can be as good a rebounder as TD and bring an additional outside shooting threat he deserves minutes. JJ has been playing about as much as DT since ANO went down.
 
Trey can play pickup basketball all day long and be a star, he's quick and can sky. That doesn't mean he literally went to a gym by himself or with a rebounder and took a few hundred shots every day........or sought serious coaching to improve his form. Lots of kids can excel in high school because of athletic abilities but never get good fundamentals.

When I was at Richmond you couldn't sneak into the Robins Center day or night without seeing Bob McCurdy in there shooting. John Sweitz was the same. Shooting is a skill that takes endless practice. Playing is not working on your shot. I don't believe if Trey really worked on his shot it would be as bad as it is now.
 
Originally posted by fan2011:

Originally posted by MolivaManiac:
You're making my point. Trey is our best rebounder.

FWIW, my only adjustment to Ulla's lineup is Trey for Josh. I'm not ready to anoint Josh as a quality A10 starter because he hit a few shots against Mason like others are.

At this point, he's just a role player who is logging extra minutes because Alonzo got hurt.

If we are going to be any good the next 2 years, Josh will be nothing more than a solid 2nd or 3rd guy off the bench. If he's a starter, we've got some real problems, IMO.
Click to expand...
I have liked what I have seen from Josh the past few games. He has not only hit outside shots, he had 9 rebounds against Fordham. The jury is still out on how good he actually is since we have not seen him get extended minutes for more than the past few games. If we compare stats between JJ, Trey and DT over the past 3 games (since ANO was injured) we get an interesting comparison. Take these stats with a grain of salt since the sample size is very low.

Points per 40 minutes
JJ: 13.8
TD: 4.7
DT: 4.8

Offensive rebounds per 40 minutes
JJ: 2.9
TD: 2.8
DT: 1.1

Defensive rebounds per 40 minutes
JJ: 5.1
TD: 5.1
DT: 4.3

JJ's rebounding numbers are boosted by his 9 rebound Fordham game, and there is more to defense than rebounding so these numbers are nowhere near the full story. If JJ can be as good a rebounder as TD and bring an additional outside shooting threat he deserves minutes. JJ has been playing about as much as DT since ANO went down.
Click to expand...
Pretty interesting stats and shows positive value added. We have seen some really good games by JJ in the last week or so, but haven't seen enough of JJ this season to know if those statistics would be true averages for a season's worth of play. Unfortunately for JJ (and the fans), we haven't had the opportunity to see what he could have done due to limited minutes until NO went down. CM has always had a pecking order, and it seems once that order is in place, it stays in place even if flawed. JJ was not in the rotation for more than a few minutes a game until as of late. Hope he continues his consistent play through remainder of the season. It will also be interesting to see if NO returns whether JJ will continue to get quality minutes or be banned back to the bench & used for filler time.
 
Originally posted by I-M-UR:
But you look at Trey as a A10 starter? He cannot shoot, Hustles, plays good defense he's now our second best rebounder. Terry is our best even before losing ANO. The reality is trying almost anything isn't going to make any difference with this year's outcome. Playing Josh may help us find out where he might be next year.



I absolutely don't see Trey as an A-10 starter. Never have. Neither Trey nor Deion is an A-10 level starter. I've said for the past 2 years, that Trey is an ideal 6th man. A high energy guy who can come in for at MOST 20 minutes per game, play 110% grab some boards and play good defense. The problem is for the past 2 years, Trey has been a starter for us. That's not Trey's fault, it is the coaches fault, for both not recruiting better and not giving someone else an opportunity to play that role.

And by someone, I mean Josh Jones. I am not saying Josh is a long term A-10 level starter, but I think he deserves the opportunity. He is a definitely a better shooter than Trey and I think those stats bear out that he has the chance to be as good of a rebounder as Trey. Trey like Deion to me have the undeserved reputation as "great" defenders. They are good, maybe above average defenders, not good enough to offset their anemic offensive production.

This season is already lost for all practical purposes, I'd like to see JJ and Smithen get extended looks at playing major roles for the rest of the season to see what potentially they could bring next season. I know Trey or Deion are both seniors next year, which in Mooney's world means they are entrenched starters for us. If that is the case, I see next year playing out exactly as this one does. You can't win playing 3 on 5 on offense and that is what we run when we play those 2 guys.

Trey and Deion have role player skill sets, the sooner Mooney realizes that, the better.
Click to expand...
 
Unfortunately, 97, you are correct. Neither Try nor Deion is an A-10 starter. Trey would be a perfect 6th man, and he would probably thrive in that role. I don't know yet how good Josh Jones can be, but he shows promise, and he is certainly a better offensive player than either Deion or Trey. He doesn't have the bulk of Deion nor the tenacity of Trey, but I suspect he can be a decent rebounder although in CM's scheme, rebounding is an afterthought. We might lose a couple of rebounds a game with JJ as opposed to Trey or Deion, but maybe not. I know we would gain offensively.
 
Agree that TD and DT are not A10 starters. Once I see JJ put the ball on the deck and take his guy to the hoop, I will be even more optimistic. Glad to see he is showing he can shoot though, we always have room for that
 
There seems to be a pecking order of players many of you speak of. It could be Mooneys demise though if he sticks to his guns and doesn't play younger guys over seniors. Josh has really not been given a chance this year. If he keeps playing like he has, I think we need to question the coaching decisions. Let's see how he finishes the season.
 
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