Grading high school recruits and classes over the past # of years ...

[Section9.RowD]

I’m almost always an optimist and an enthusiast, but at this point, I can’t help shaking my head at how things have gone this season, as well as my concerns for the rest of this year and the next few years. While we've had a crazy amount of discussion on the transfers we’ve brought in, I think an equally significant issue lies with our high school recruiting classes since the ’19 class when Tyler joined.

Below are my personal grades for each class, based on their contributions at Richmond and what the coaching staff was able to achieve with them. I’ve also factored in their performance and playing time at their transfer schools to some extent. It’s worth noting that none of our recruits have left Richmond and gone on to become major contributors at their next school—Marcus Randolph this year might be the closest exception. In most cases, former Spiders who transferred have either not started or have seen even less playing time than they did here.

While I have general thoughts on current players, I’ve left grades as TBD for now.

’20 - Collective Class Grade: C​

• Dji Bailey: Thanks, Wake Forest, for firing Danny Manning.
• Andre Weir: F (left before playing a game).
• Isaiah Wilson: C+.

’21 - Collective Class Grade: D-​

• Aidan Noyes: C-.
• Marcus Randolph: C+.
• Jason Nelson: D.
• Malcom Dread: F.

’22 - Collective Class Grade: TBD​

• Mike Walz: TBD.

’23 - Collective Class Grade: TBD​

• Jack Graham (Walk-on): N/A.
• Mikkel Tyne: TBD.
• Trevor Smith: C.
• Collin Tanner: TBD.
• Ryan Soulis: (medical redshirt TBD)

’24 - Collective Class Grade: TBD​

• Robinson/McGlothin (redshirts): TBD.

 

[SFspidur]

Jack Graham has made such an impact that you mixed him up with Jack Clark at VCU.

 

[Section9.RowD]

Jack Graham has made such an impact that you mixed him up with Jack Clark at VCU.

hah - fixed

 

[spider23]

Here were some of my grades:

Recruiting '16 - '24 Classes

OK, have too much going on right now - so what do? Ignore it and write a book on Spidernation :):):). Sorry for the length. We have a lot of discussion on things like: Our recruiting is better lately, or No it's not better, etc etc. So A) Only looking at HS recruiting, which I know is only...

richmond.forums.rivals.com

These tend to get downgraded when the guys have to actually play, Dji of course had a very nice senior year - so that class gets an uptick.

 

[Section9.RowD]

Here were some of my grades:

Recruiting '16 - '24 Classes

OK, have too much going on right now - so what do? Ignore it and write a book on Spidernation :):):). Sorry for the length. We have a lot of discussion on things like: Our recruiting is better lately, or No it's not better, etc etc. So A) Only looking at HS recruiting, which I know is only...

richmond.forums.rivals.com

These tend to get downgraded when the guys have to actually play, Dji of course had a very nice senior year - so that class gets an uptick.

ah sorry - I do remember reading and being quite optimistic at the time.

 

[VT4700]

I’m almost always an optimist and an enthusiast, but at this point, I can’t help shaking my head at how things have gone this season, as well as my concerns for the rest of this year and the next few years. While we've had a crazy amount of discussion on the transfers we’ve brought in, I think an equally significant issue lies with our high school recruiting classes since the ’19 class when Tyler joined.

Below are my personal grades for each class, based on their contributions at Richmond and what the coaching staff was able to achieve with them. I’ve also factored in their performance and playing time at their transfer schools to some extent. It’s worth noting that none of our recruits have left Richmond and gone on to become major contributors at their next school—Marcus Randolph this year might be the closest exception. In most cases, former Spiders who transferred have either not started or have seen even less playing time than they did here.

While I have general thoughts on current players, I’ve left grades as TBD for now.

’20 - Collective Class Grade: C​

• Dji Bailey: Thanks, Wake Forest, for firing Danny Manning.
• Andre Weir: F (left before playing a game).
• Isaiah Wilson: C+.

’21 - Collective Class Grade: D-​

• Aidan Noyes: C-.
• Marcus Randolph: C+.
• Jason Nelson: D.
• Malcom Dread: F.

’22 - Collective Class Grade: TBD​

• Mike Walz: TBD.

’23 - Collective Class Grade: TBD​

• Jack Graham (Walk-on): N/A.
• Mikkel Tyne: TBD.
• Trevor Smith: C.
• Collin Tanner: TBD.
• Ryan Soulis: (medical redshirt TBD)

’24 - Collective Class Grade: TBD​

• Robinson/McGlothin (redshirts): TBD.

That's a heck of a lot of misses.

 

[97spiderfan]

I’m almost always an optimist and an enthusiast, but at this point, I can’t help shaking my head at how things have gone this season, as well as my concerns for the rest of this year and the next few years. While we've had a crazy amount of discussion on the transfers we’ve brought in, I think an equally significant issue lies with our high school recruiting classes since the ’19 class when Tyler joined.

Below are my personal grades for each class, based on their contributions at Richmond and what the coaching staff was able to achieve with them. I’ve also factored in their performance and playing time at their transfer schools to some extent. It’s worth noting that none of our recruits have left Richmond and gone on to become major contributors at their next school—Marcus Randolph this year might be the closest exception. In most cases, former Spiders who transferred have either not started or have seen even less playing time than they did here.

While I have general thoughts on current players, I’ve left grades as TBD for now.

’20 - Collective Class Grade: C​

• Dji Bailey: Thanks, Wake Forest, for firing Danny Manning.
• Andre Weir: F (left before playing a game).
• Isaiah Wilson: C+.

’21 - Collective Class Grade: D-​

• Aidan Noyes: C-.
• Marcus Randolph: C+.
• Jason Nelson: D.
• Malcom Dread: F.

’22 - Collective Class Grade: TBD​

• Mike Walz: TBD.

’23 - Collective Class Grade: TBD​

• Jack Graham (Walk-on): N/A.
• Mikkel Tyne: TBD.
• Trevor Smith: C.
• Collin Tanner: TBD.
• Ryan Soulis: (medical redshirt TBD)

’24 - Collective Class Grade: TBD​

• Robinson/McGlothin (redshirts): TBD.

That is brutal. Who is charge of high school recruiting for us? We need to move on from whomever that is. This is not getting the job done.

 

[97spiderfan]

ah sorry - I do remember reading and being quite optimistic at the time.

The other thread with 23 analysis is a good reminder of our blind optimism for our newest classes, while similarly looking at the abject failures of the preceeding classes. Whole lot of cognitive dissonance going on there. I include myself in that category as well, so not casting blame. I think we all like to have faith in new recruits, but that faith is more often than not rewarded by Mooney.

 

[VT4700]

I think more focus needs to be on guys we think can play right away as freshmen. Especially with the portal so popular. Why focus so much on potential and future years, when those players might end up transferring anyway.

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

I think more focus needs to be on guys we think can play right away as freshmen. Especially with the portal so popular. Why focus so much on potential and future years, when those players might end up transferring anyway.

Agree. Those that get time as freshmen under Mooney are generally the guys who have impact throughout their careers. Those that get no time at all, not so much.

Dji being one of the best (only?) examples of a later developing guy in recent memory, but I do remember when he got minutes in that NIT game as a freshman him showing at least one nice drive to the hoop. Injuries, turnovers and positional questions perhaps held him back (as did Tyler at the 3 spot.)

Agree that the staff needs to stop with project type guys if they can't develop them into actual real contributors (i.e. not just replacement-level role players) and also have a better understanding of the athleticism level needed in a high D1 game. Nelson, Noyes, Randolph, possibly now Tanner - all had/have relatively modest lateral quickness that diminishes their ability to guard anyone and inhibits their ability to create their own shots on offense. And unfortunately we have to single out a guy like Dread, who by all measures doesn't seem to be a D1 basketball player, much less an A10 caliber player.

 

[8legs1dream]

That's a heck of a lot of misses.

and yet you have offered a lifelong pass to the guy in charge of bringing these misses in, do you dare speak to that bunker boy?

FIRE BENNET, EXTEND MOONEY!

 

[VT4700]

Agree. Those that get time as freshmen under Mooney are generally the guys who have impact throughout their careers. Those that get no time at all, not so much.

Dji being one of the best (only?) examples of a later developing guy in recent memory, but I do remember when he got minutes in that NIT game as a freshman him showing at least one nice drive to the hoop. Injuries, turnovers and positional questions perhaps held him back (as did Tyler at the 3 spot.)

Agree that the staff needs to stop with project type guys if they can't develop them into actual real contributors (i.e. not just replacement-level role players) and also have a better understanding of the athleticism level needed in a high D1 game. Nelson, Noyes, Randolph, possibly now Tanner - all had/have relatively modest lateral quickness that diminishes their ability to guard anyone and inhibits their ability to create their own shots on offense. And unfortunately we have to single out a guy like Dread, who by all measures doesn't seem to be a D1 basketball player, much less an A10 caliber player.

I think starting his career here at PG and then being behind Tyler is what held Dji back. Our staff moving him to wing has helped his game and career tremendously. The athleticism was always there with him. With most of the others the past several years, no, and that is one of the biggest things holding them back, and why most are at lower D1 levels right now. No question, athleticism should be a big focus for us. It's not a tell all, and you can get away with one or two not very athletic types who are really good players, but you need to be careful to not put too many on the floor together, and I think that is what we are seeing this year.

 

[GKiller]

this warning about poor hs recruiting has been sounded for a while. Now it's just a 5 alarm fire.

the 2 redshirts and 3 incoming frosh, at least half will transfer and not contribute much at next school if u go by our precedence. The fact that 2 are redshirting only increases those odds.

this is where I want to bring up Durkin over Tanner. I was a big proponent of it, very obvious to me but not to the staff. Perhaps I should have contacted the Giper with my concerns! He gave me his number at that 7 Eleven. Not my style but I tried recruiting once for a Richmond coaching staff. I handed them a future NFL draft pick who wanted to attend & they said no thx. So I was one & done.

 

[Section9.RowD]

this is where I want to bring up Durkin over Tanner. I was a big proponent of it, very obvious to me but not to ...

ah how timely since we can all watch Bobby Buckets tonight on ESPN+ as Davidson almost certainly will head to 7-2 over Charlotte who has only beaten 2 D1 schools. Bobby averaging 31 minute, 14 points, 42% from 3, 93% from the line, 4 rebounds ...

Remind me - I generally don't know or can't remember - do we think Bobby chose Davidson just over UR straight up or because he thought he would get more playing time for the Wildcats ?

 

[GKiller]

ah how timely since we can all watch Bobby Buckets tonight on ESPN+ as Davidson almost certainly will head to 7-2 over Charlotte who has only beaten 2 D1 schools. Bobby averaging 31 minute, 14 points, 42% from 3, 93% from the line, 4 rebounds ...

Remind me - I generally don't know or can't remember - do we think Bobby chose Davidson just over UR straight up or because he thought he would get more playing time for the Wildcats ?

Bobby Buckets. I like it. Well we took Tanner over Durkin, problemo numero uno. I thought Giper read this board and valued my opinion. Apparently not.

Also there was also a debate about oversigning at that time. idk if that came into play but maybe. I advocated hard for oversigning. Because transfers were now guaranteed and in reality u were not over committing available ships. A couple posters to be named later believed Mooney would never do so. I guess if a killer hs recruit fell into our lap we can't take them because we are the 15 roster cap right now.

 

[MDspider8]

I’m almost always an optimist and an enthusiast, but at this point, I can’t help shaking my head at how things have gone this season, as well as my concerns for the rest of this year and the next few years. While we've had a crazy amount of discussion on the transfers we’ve brought in, I think an equally significant issue lies with our high school recruiting classes since the ’19 class when Tyler joined.

Below are my personal grades for each class, based on their contributions at Richmond and what the coaching staff was able to achieve with them. I’ve also factored in their performance and playing time at their transfer schools to some extent. It’s worth noting that none of our recruits have left Richmond and gone on to become major contributors at their next school—Marcus Randolph this year might be the closest exception. In most cases, former Spiders who transferred have either not started or have seen even less playing time than they did here.

While I have general thoughts on current players, I’ve left grades as TBD for now.

’20 - Collective Class Grade: C​

• Dji Bailey: Thanks, Wake Forest, for firing Danny Manning.
• Andre Weir: F (left before playing a game).
• Isaiah Wilson: C+.

’21 - Collective Class Grade: D-​

• Aidan Noyes: C-.
• Marcus Randolph: C+.
• Jason Nelson: D.
• Malcom Dread: F.

’22 - Collective Class Grade: TBD​

• Mike Walz: TBD.

’23 - Collective Class Grade: TBD​

• Jack Graham (Walk-on): N/A.
• Mikkel Tyne: TBD.
• Trevor Smith: C.
• Collin Tanner: TBD.
• Ryan Soulis: (medical redshirt TBD)

’24 - Collective Class Grade: TBD​

• Robinson/McGlothin (redshirts): TBD.

I don’t know about you guys, but I’ve seen enough from Walz to give him like a C-/D+ grade. He can be serviceable as a backup C who is physical and rebounds decently well, but that’s about all I think we can expect at this point.

 

[Section9.RowD]

Bobby Buckets. I like it. Well we took Tanner over Durkin, problemo numero uno. I thought Giper read this board and valued my opinion. Apparently not.

Yeah, when I went to the @ Davidson game last year, I met up with the son of a good friend of mine who was also a freshman at Davidson. Bobby Buckets had already earned his nickname—and it seems pretty accurate ...

 

[spiderman]

Bobby Buckets. I like it. Well we took Tanner over Durkin, problemo numero uno. I thought Giper read this board and valued my opinion. Apparently not.

Also there was also a debate about oversigning at that time. idk if that came into play but maybe. I advocated hard for oversigning. Because transfers were now guaranteed and in reality u were not over committing available ships. A couple posters to be named later believed Mooney would never do so. I guess if a killer hs recruit fell into our lap we can't take them because we are the 15 roster cap right now.

not sure we had Tanner over Durkin. I also liked Austin Ball and loved Matt Reed in that class.

as for oversigning ... we apparently can't get freshmen any time anyway. what good would sitting a 14th guy do?

 

[SFspidur]

Speaking of Austin Ball, saw last week that he's redshirting this year after losing three weeks due to illness early in the season and Mason having a lot of wing depth.

 

[Section9.RowD]

not sure we had Tanner over Durkin. I also liked Austin Ball and loved Matt Reed in that class.

as for oversigning ... we apparently can't get freshmen any time anyway. what good would sitting a 14th guy do?

Yeah - I was depressed when Matt Reed backed out of our offer - but have to think he would have been a C or worse at this point given he's playing only 13 minutes averaging 4 points on a 4-6 Tulsa team

I was really hopeful about Finley Bizjack who is starting on Butler as a sophomore ... At the end of last season, he first hit the transfer portal but then busted out of it before doubling down on Butler. Just think about what might have been for Rivers Portsmouth to sponsor the 2 missed FTs in the 2nd half.

 

[Eight Legger]

Our recruiting largely has sucked lately, that's clear. More concerning: Mooney has said repeatedly that he wants to go back to focusing first on recruiting, then adding guys to the mix from the portal. That would be a disaster.

 

[spider23]

Exactly EL. Mooney has his extension and now he is ahead of the curve in going back to the past of relying on h.s. recruits? With his recent track record? Cmonnnnn.

 

[spiderman]

I think you still recruit HS spots, then fill in holes if/when we lose guys.
that's what I think we did in landing our best transfers.