Don't sleep on Roche

Oct 19, 2015
223
221
43
From his Richmond bio

  • offered by Missouri, Pittsburgh, Kansas State, St. Bonaventure, and San Diego
  • Southern Conference Rookie of the Year
  • 110 three-pointers ranked ninth in Division I and first among freshmen
  • Ranked third in Southern Conference and 39th in Division I in three-point FG pct, at 39.7
To this, I also add that he shot 90.9% FT

Only one or two of our other players could get a similar offer list. If he can play defense well enough to be offered by SEC, ACC, and Big 12 schools, he can be fine in the A10.

While there is a legitimate argument for Bigelow or perhaps others, I think Roche fits perfectly in our starting lineup. He, Burton, and Quinn provide lots of offense. Gustavson will defend the other team's best player, and won't be counted on to take many shots in part due to Roche's presence in the lineup.
 

spiderman

Spider's Club
Jun 7, 2001
16,927
6,214
113
Give me Quinn, Burton (at the 4! what about his pro prospects?? No Grace!?), Roche, Goose, Nelson/Dji (undecided). This is an awesome offensive unit.
I want to get a look at Bigelow before commiting to a line-up.
we have a lot of solid pieces.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SpiderDogg

VT4700

Graduate Assistant
Dec 16, 2016
4,727
2,127
113
We could have several 20+ minutes guys this year, so I'm not sure it even matters who starts. I think there will be plenty of games where a non starter will get more minutes than a starter.
 

urmite

Spider's Club
Gold Member
Dec 2, 2004
10,206
3,281
113
Without even considering any improvement for Burton, Goose, Grace, Bailey & Crabtree...

Am I seeing this correct?
Golden, Gilyard, Cayo, & Sherod combined for 42.1 Points, 15.7 Rebounds, 10.4 Assists per game
Quinn, Bigelow & Roche combined for 36.2 Points, 16.7 Rebounds, 6.1 Assists per game?
And that is without Nelson...

Yes, the replacements played against lesser opponents. And yes, both sets of numbers may include non-D1...

But that seems impressive to me...
 

POMSpidur

Rookie
May 26, 2022
187
81
28
Without even considering any improvement for Burton, Goose, Grace, Bailey & Crabtree...

Am I seeing this correct?
Golden, Gilyard, Cayo, & Sherod combined for 42.1 Points, 15.7 Rebounds, 10.4 Assists per game
Quinn, Bigelow & Roche combined for 36.2 Points, 16.7 Rebounds, 6.1 Assists per game?
And that is without Nelson...

Yes, the replacements played against lesser opponents. And yes, both sets of numbers may include non-D1...

But that seems impressive to me...
So less points and less assists against SIGNIFICANTLY worse competition impresses you?
 
Oct 19, 2015
223
221
43
So less points and less assists against SIGNIFICANTLY worse competition impresses you?
His point is that our best 4 outgoing players don't have significantly better stats than a smaller number (3) of incoming players.

You seem to be really down on our offense next year and the quality of the incoming players. I think that guys who excelled in college and were drawing interest and offers from multiple P5 teams are going to do just fine here. We don't often win those recruiting P5 recruiting battles with incoming freshman, but we did it twice with proven players on the transfer market. The A10 is not too good for second team Patriot League and Southern Conference rookie of the year. Neither were the SEC, Big 12, and ACC for Roche and I believe you can add Big 10 to the list when including Quinn.

I'm much happier with standouts from lesser leagues who are now drawing P5 offers than failed Michigan players like VCU is getting.

... and my original point is that people are sleeping on Roche. Best case he is our second best player this year, and worst case he is a useful bench piece.
 

spiderman

Spider's Club
Jun 7, 2001
16,927
6,214
113
we did very well in the portal.
no, we're not going to replace point for point with the class that graduated and had two 2,000 point scorers. this new group will make up part of it, and improvements from the returning guys will have to make up the rest. there's room for everybody to get better.
 

SpiderDad75

Star
Gold Member
May 12, 2020
1,094
2,602
113
But who is sleeping on him? Kid can absolutely shoot it…I would say this…will he be able to put it on the floor and guard? IF he can’t really put it on the floor then you have others like Jason, Dji, and maybe Crab who can create get paint touches and kick out to a spotted up Roche. IF Roche can put it on the floor then it’s another guard who can help and brings us even more versatility. I don’t think anyone is sleeping on him. Multiple offers from P5 doesn’t necessarily mean anything. We had multiple P5 offers before and after Dji decommited so I think that’s inconsequential imo. I said earlier at least for me…it’s not what they did on film it’s what they are doing now in wrkouts bc that’s ultimately what matters. What IF he can’t guard? Then how do we use him? Does his shooting give him more wiggle room to stay on floor? For me as a former coach…I need defense 1st but if he’s on fire then he prob stays on the floor. At least until he cools off 😀🕷🏀
 

spider23

Spider's Club
May 31, 2002
14,098
7,685
113
Dedmon Center USA
ruhoops.proboards.com
It is an interesting case study, to see if the move up from lower conferences will translate for the transfers. Just off the top of my head, I believe Quinn had a good game vs Rutgers and Roche I recall lit up Pitt in his first game. Hoping Bigelow takes a jump year two off of a major injury. Same with Crab. I am in agreement with sdad, I like defensive integrity first - though I think Mooney may value offense a bit more. Will be an interesting year.
 

gcarter52

Team Manager
Nov 21, 2011
1,948
1,332
113
Rock Hill, SC
But who is sleeping on him? Kid can absolutely shoot it…I would say this…will he be able to put it on the floor and guard? IF he can’t really put it on the floor then you have others like Jason, Dji, and maybe Crab who can create get paint touches and kick out to a spotted up Roche. IF Roche can put it on the floor then it’s another guard who can help and brings us even more versatility. I don’t think anyone is sleeping on him. Multiple offers from P5 doesn’t necessarily mean anything. We had multiple P5 offers before and after Dji decommited so I think that’s inconsequential imo. I said earlier at least for me…it’s not what they did on film it’s what they are doing now in wrkouts bc that’s ultimately what matters. What IF he can’t guard? Then how do we use him? Does his shooting give him more wiggle room to stay on floor? For me as a former coach…I need defense 1st but if he’s on fire then he prob stays on the floor. At least until he cools off 😀🕷🏀
I’m with you too Sdad I was a high school coach for 18 years in Richmond city schools
 
  • Like
Reactions: SpiderDad75

spiderman

Spider's Club
Jun 7, 2001
16,927
6,214
113
conceptually I love defense first. in reality, I always favor shooters. and I won't take a really good shooter off the floor because he's missed a couple. he's always one shot away from hitting 3 in a row.

all 3 transfers struggled against some of the togher teams they played. Quinn was decent against a great defensive big guy at Rutgers but he had 7 turnovers. he had a tough time against Duke and Syracuse. a lot of bigs would.

Roche also struggled against Duke. he relies so much on the 3 that it'll happen sometimes. you have to keep throwing him out there though. 40% on really heavy volume is no joke, and that line's the same no matter the conference.

Bigelow was 0-3 from the floor against Clemson and 1-8 at Georgia.

I think practices here will be at a different level for these 3 vs the practice comp they're used to. they'll be forced to be ready.
 

Eight Legger

Spider's Club
May 27, 2003
18,234
14,448
113
I wouldn't place a ton of emphasis on how they did against better teams, only because their teams were hugely outmanned and it's a team game. If your teammates can't get open, you're going to force up some bad shots, for example. Hopefully with a better team, they'll perform better in bigger games.
 
  • Like
Reactions: spider23 and VT4700

spiderman

Spider's Club
Jun 7, 2001
16,927
6,214
113
I wouldn't place a ton of emphasis on how they did against better teams, only because their teams were hugely outmanned and it's a team game. If your teammates can't get open, you're going to force up some bad shots, for example. Hopefully with a better team, they'll perform better in bigger games.
yes, I hope so too. I think a guy like Roche in particular might not be the focus of a defense as much with the talent we have around him. (until he starts hitting 3's at 40% here too).
 

SpiderDad75

Star
Gold Member
May 12, 2020
1,094
2,602
113
conceptually I love defense first. in reality, I always favor shooters. and I won't take a really good shooter off the floor because he's missed a couple. he's always one shot away from hitting 3 in a row.

all 3 transfers struggled against some of the togher teams they played. Quinn was decent against a great defensive big guy at Rutgers but he had 7 turnovers. he had a tough time against Duke and Syracuse. a lot of bigs would.

Roche also struggled against Duke. he relies so much on the 3 that it'll happen sometimes. you have to keep throwing him out there though. 40% on really heavy volume is no joke, and that line's the same no matter the conference.

Bigelow was 0-3 from the floor against Clemson and 1-8 at Georgia.

I think practices here will be at a different level for these 3 vs the practice comp they're used to. they'll be forced to be ready.
“I always favor shooters. and I won't take a really good shooter off the floor because he's missed a couple. he's always one shot away from hitting 3 in a row.”

But will you take that shooter out IF he’s getting beat consistently and becomes a liability? What IF that shooter is just that “a shooter” and can’t put it on the floor and becomes ineffective bc of defense being played on him, when playing those better teams? Do you keep him in?
This is why I think it’s important to have as many playmakers on the floor as possible. IF Roche is one dimensional ( I’m not saying he is) then those playmakers can break down defenses and get him those open looks. That doesn’t work if our playmakers are few and far between. Jason, Dji and Goose HAVE to be those playmakers imo. Even Bigelow could maybe fall in that category to a degree. He CAN put it on the floor from what i understand, so that’s a plus.
 

SpiderDad75

Star
Gold Member
May 12, 2020
1,094
2,602
113
yes, I hope so too. I think a guy like Roche in particular might not be the focus of a defense as much with the talent we have around him. (until he starts hitting 3's at 40% here too).
You don’t think he will be on the scouting report? A 40% shooter from 3?? I think that def will be a focus until he proves it doesn’t warrant it.
 

VT4700

Graduate Assistant
Dec 16, 2016
4,727
2,127
113
“I always favor shooters. and I won't take a really good shooter off the floor because he's missed a couple. he's always one shot away from hitting 3 in a row.”

But will you take that shooter out IF he’s getting beat consistently and becomes a liability? What IF that shooter is just that “a shooter” and can’t put it on the floor and becomes ineffective bc of defense being played on him, when playing those better teams? Do you keep him in?
This is why I think it’s important to have as many playmakers on the floor as possible. IF Roche is one dimensional ( I’m not saying he is) then those playmakers can break down defenses and get him those open looks. That doesn’t work if our playmakers are few and far between. Jason, Dji and Goose HAVE to be those playmakers imo. Even Bigelow could maybe fall in that category to a degree. He CAN put it on the floor from what i understand, so that’s a plus.
In order to break down the defense, our PGs need to be able the hit the 3. Then, when the defense is forced to guard them closer, they need to be able to beat their guy, and either finish at the hoop, be consistent with a 10-12 foot floater, or draw a double team and find the open guy. It all starts with the shooting though. If they can't consistently make the 3, the defense will play off of them, and none of the other things will be possible because you can't break down a defense if your guy is playing off of you.
 
Oct 19, 2015
223
221
43
You don’t think he will be on the scouting report? A 40% shooter from 3?? I think that def will be a focus until he proves it doesn’t warrant it.
I think the problem for other teams is that the NBA prospect and the 7 footer who shot 54.5% along with 7.4 rebounds and 4.0 assists last year will also be on the scouting report. That might not be a problem for Duke, but it will for pretty much everyone on our schedule this year.

As far as your earlier comments about offers... no, they don't mean everything, but they are one of the best metrics we have. It tells you what people who do this for a living think of the player. In the case of Dji vs Roche, well, Dji has had multiple injuries so that changes everything. Roche has the offers, Div 1 performance, and is not injured, so until he proves otherwise, I'm going to be pretty high on him.

If Dji and Crabtree had stayed healthy, we might all be penciling them in our starting lineup and who we went after in the portal would have been different.
 

SpiderDad75

Star
Gold Member
May 12, 2020
1,094
2,602
113
In order to break down the defense, our PGs need to be able the hit the 3. Then, when the defense is forced to guard them closer, they need to be able to beat their guy, and either finish at the hoop, be consistent with a 10-12 foot floater, or draw a double team and find the open guy. It all starts with the shooting though. If they can't consistently make the 3, the defense will play off of them, and none of the other things will be possible because you can't break down a defense if your guy is playing off of you.
I will disagree with you on PGs need to be able hit the 3. The defense still has to guard the player...no? How many teams play zone in conf? Isn't our offense predicated off reads and picks? That also can help our playmakers get off IF they are having trouble. Beating someone off the dribble has nothing to do with if they can hit a 3. If a guard is constantly beating someone up top...the defense has to move..has too. We suffered from this last season in terms of guarding up top on occasion. Doesn't matter if you can hit a 3, at least imo. By your scenario the guards are going to play off of our guys until they prove they can hit shots...nothing I've seen these 2 years say teams are going to play off of us.
 

SpiderDad75

Star
Gold Member
May 12, 2020
1,094
2,602
113
I think the problem for other teams is that the NBA prospect and the 7 footer who shot 54.5% along with 7.4 rebounds and 4.0 assists last year will also be on the scouting report. That might not be a problem for Duke, but it will for pretty much everyone on our schedule this year.

As far as your earlier comments about offers... no, they don't mean everything, but they are one of the best metrics we have. It tells you what people who do this for a living think of the player. In the case of Dji vs Roche, well, Dji has had multiple injuries so that changes everything. Roche has the offers, Div 1 performance, and is not injured, so until he proves otherwise, I'm going to be pretty high on him.

If Dji and Crabtree had stayed healthy, we might all be penciling them in our starting lineup and who we went after in the portal would have been different.
"I think the problem for other teams is that the NBA prospect and the 7 footer who shot 54.5% along with 7.4 rebounds and 4.0 assists last year will also be on the scouting report. That might not be a problem for Duke, but it will for pretty much everyone on our schedule this year."

I can get with this.

As far as the other things, offers can give you an idea for sure but for me personally I put no stake in them. I don't think I compared Dji and Roche except by offers. I personally don't care what transfers have done previously bc they have moved up a level and still have to come in and prove they belong. That being said 40% is 40% for 3. I don't think you responded to the questions I posed in my original post. I don't think anyone is sleeping on him, I just don't. I could make the same argument on here simply bc of your last statement about Dji and Crab. that people are sleeping on them or bc a lot on here have penciled Jason in at PG and not really respected that Dji had alot of the same accolades and played PG his whole career but I haven't. I did pose the question on an earlier thread and got great responses...but I'm not worried about who starts, I just want these guys to gel quickly and become lethal no matter who is in the game.
 

spiderman

Spider's Club
Jun 7, 2001
16,927
6,214
113
“I always favor shooters. and I won't take a really good shooter off the floor because he's missed a couple. he's always one shot away from hitting 3 in a row.”

But will you take that shooter out IF he’s getting beat consistently and becomes a liability? What IF that shooter is just that “a shooter” and can’t put it on the floor and becomes ineffective bc of defense being played on him, when playing those better teams? Do you keep him in?
This is why I think it’s important to have as many playmakers on the floor as possible. IF Roche is one dimensional ( I’m not saying he is) then those playmakers can break down defenses and get him those open looks. That doesn’t work if our playmakers are few and far between. Jason, Dji and Goose HAVE to be those playmakers imo. Even Bigelow could maybe fall in that category to a degree. He CAN put it on the floor from what i understand, so that’s a plus.
in your extreme scenario, no I wouldn't play (or even recruit) a kid who's just a shooter.
but I don't think a guy who's that big a liability on defense or that bad a ball handler would be recruited to play here. we've both seen great AAU shooters who aren't D1 ball players.

I love playmakers. I still play and I'm happier with a good assist than a made bucket (but I'll never be consider a playmaker!). playmakers don't help if others on the floor can't make shots. end of the day, the scoreboard counts the points.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SpiderDad75
Oct 19, 2015
223
221
43
I don't think you responded to the questions I posed in my original post. I don't think anyone is sleeping on him, I just don't.

I started this thread because:

1) I noticed people putting Bigelow over Roche in their starting lineup (reasonable but wrong I think)
2) You seem to like planting the idea, without explicitly stating it, that maybe Roche isn't very athletic whenever his name comes up (like in this thread)
3) He has offers from SEC, ACC, and Big 12 teams
4) I hate the two threads getting most of the attention now -- "Best Poster" and "Do we need a recruiter?" and thought maybe we could discuss something else.
 

spiderman

Spider's Club
Jun 7, 2001
16,927
6,214
113
You don’t think he will be on the scouting report? A 40% shooter from 3?? I think that def will be a focus until he proves it doesn’t warrant it.
I think he got more attention as a top scorer at the Citadel than he'll get here with Burton and others scoring around him.

but yes, people will extend to him. based on stats he doesn't seem like he'll beat anyone off the dribble. he needs to change that, even if the 3 is his biggest threat.
 

Eight Legger

Spider's Club
May 27, 2003
18,234
14,448
113
I don't think Roche starts initially, but I hope he is starting before too long because that will mean he is hitting threes and playing passable defense. He seems to be the type of weapon we haven't had in a minute – a pure gunner at the 2 spot. We've had good players there, of course, but I can't think of any recently who were true sharpshooters like this at such a high volume.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SpiderDad75

spiderman

Spider's Club
Jun 7, 2001
16,927
6,214
113
I will disagree with you on PGs need to be able hit the 3. The defense still has to guard the player...no? How many teams play zone in conf? Isn't our offense predicated off reads and picks? That also can help our playmakers get off IF they are having trouble. Beating someone off the dribble has nothing to do with if they can hit a 3. If a guard is constantly beating someone up top...the defense has to move..has too. We suffered from this last season in terms of guarding up top on occasion. Doesn't matter if you can hit a 3, at least imo. By your scenario the guards are going to play off of our guys until they prove they can hit shots...nothing I've seen these 2 years say teams are going to play off of us.
I agree with this. it of course helps if a PG can shoot well. it's easier to beat a guy if he's running out to you. but some PGs can get to where they want regardless.

I think a bigger problem with a PG who doesn't hit 3's comes if you have too many other players on the floor with him who don't hit 3's. and we might have that problem. Quinn doesn't shoot many, and that's fine. Grace supposedly shoots well, but he hit 28% last year. Goose didn't light it up. if those 3 are on the floor together, we could have trouble scoring if the PG isn't an outside threat.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SpiderDogg

SpiderDad75

Star
Gold Member
May 12, 2020
1,094
2,602
113
I started this thread because:

1) I noticed people putting Bigelow over Roche in their starting lineup (reasonable but wrong I think)
2) You seem to like planting the idea, without explicitly stating it, that maybe Roche isn't very athletic whenever his name comes up (like in this thread)
3) He has offers from SEC, ACC, and Big 12 teams
4) I hate the two threads getting most of the attention now -- "Best Poster" and "Do we need a recruiter?" and thought maybe we could discuss something else.
The Bigelow question is a fair debate. I have given “What If” scenarios..it’s why I capitalized IF…I’m not implying he’s unathletic bc he may not be able to put it on floor. You can get a sense of the type of player these guys are by their film. I’m not going by that since they are campus. Your number 4 I got nothing for you. I’ve seen these guys in person have you? At the end of the day I’m just like everyone else when it comes to discussing topics.
 

spiderman

Spider's Club
Jun 7, 2001
16,927
6,214
113
I could make the same argument on here simply bc of your last statement about Dji and Crab. that people are sleeping on them or bc a lot on here have penciled Jason in at PG and not really respected that Dji had alot of the same accolades and played PG his whole career but I haven't.
I want a fair competition at point, but tough to ignore Mooney's comment in JOC's article.
unless JOC framed it incorrectly (which is possible), it read like Mooney expects Jason to start at the point. whether that's 20 mpg or 30 is the bigger question.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SpiderDad75

SpiderDad75

Star
Gold Member
May 12, 2020
1,094
2,602
113
I agree with this. it of course helps if a PG can shoot well. it's easier to beat a guy if he's running out to you. but some PGs can get to where they want regardless.

I think a bigger problem with a PG who doesn't hit 3's comes if you have too many other players on the floor with him who don't hit 3's. and we might have that problem. Quinn doesn't shoot many, and that's fine. Grace supposedly shoots well, but he hit 28% last year. Goose didn't light it up. if those 3 are on the floor together, we could have trouble scoring if the PG isn't an outside threat.
Fair. Let me add this for you stats guys…how many of these guys are 3 pt shooters? VT is right about in the sense they do need a consistent jumper just not a 3 imo.

1. STEPHEN CURRY
1.29 POINTS/ISO
2. CHRIS PAUL
1.24 POINTS/ISO
3. JIMMY BUTLER
1.23 POINTS/ISO
4. KAWHI LEONARD
1.23 POINTS/ISO
5. KEVIN DURANT
1.19 POINTS/ISO
6. LEBRON JAMES
1.18 POINTS/ISO
7. JAMES HARDEN
1.17 POINTS/ISO
 

SpiderDad75

Star
Gold Member
May 12, 2020
1,094
2,602
113
I want a fair competition at point, but tough to ignore Mooney's comment in JOC's article.
unless JOC framed it incorrectly (which is possible), it read like Mooney expects Jason to start at the point. whether that's 20 mpg or 30 is the bigger question.
All fair points…keep in mind we didn’t go out and get another PG. I was just using that as an example. 😀 Also JOC as the beat writer “SHOULD” know that Dji was a PG and ranked like #15 or something coming out of NC.
 
  • Like
Reactions: spiderman

VT4700

Graduate Assistant
Dec 16, 2016
4,727
2,127
113
I will disagree with you on PGs need to be able hit the 3. The defense still has to guard the player...no? How many teams play zone in conf? Isn't our offense predicated off reads and picks? That also can help our playmakers get off IF they are having trouble. Beating someone off the dribble has nothing to do with if they can hit a 3. If a guard is constantly beating someone up top...the defense has to move..has too. We suffered from this last season in terms of guarding up top on occasion. Doesn't matter if you can hit a 3, at least imo. By your scenario the guards are going to play off of our guys until they prove they can hit shots...nothing I've seen these 2 years say teams are going to play off of us.
Does the defense really have to guard a PG who can't hit the 3? Why? If they can't hit the 3, how can they beat them off the dribble if the defender plays off of them? You say if a guard is constantly beating someone up top........, but if I am guarding a guy who can't hit the 3, I will not be on him up top. We have had ShawnDre at a career 38.6% from 3 and Jacob at a career 36.2% from 3 the last 9 years, so teams have not been able to play off of them. We need this to continue. But, if I am guarding our guys this year, yes, I would make them prove they can hit the outside shot before going out on them away from the basket. I just don't think teams can be very effective on offense without a PG who can shoot unless everyone else on the floor can draw a lot of attention away from them. I could be wrong here, but one of the reasons I think Nelson will get the most minutes at PG is because of his shooting.

I think of UVA last year. Beekman is a PG who can do everything but shoot. His lack of shooting hurt them in numerous games when his guy flat out refused to guard him. As a result, they struggled big time on offense, and if he hasn't improved his shooting enough to at least keep his guy close to him, they will struggle again.
 

spiderman

Spider's Club
Jun 7, 2001
16,927
6,214
113
a Magic Johnson type can still play in today's game. if you lay off him, he'll get downhill on you and you don't want that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SpiderDad75

SpiderDad75

Star
Gold Member
May 12, 2020
1,094
2,602
113
Does the defense really have to guard a PG who can't hit the 3? Why? If they can't hit the 3, how can they beat them off the dribble if the defender plays off of them? You say if a guard is constantly beating someone up top........, but if I am guarding a guy who can't hit the 3, I will not be on him up top. We have had ShawnDre at a career 38.6% from 3 and Jacob at a career 36.2% from 3 the last 9 years, so teams have not been able to play off of them. We need this to continue. But, if I am guarding our guys this year, yes, I would make them prove they can hit the outside shot before going out on them away from the basket. I just don't think teams can be very effective on offense without a PG who can shoot unless everyone else on the floor can draw a lot of attention away from them. I could be wrong here, but one of the reasons I think Nelson will get the most minutes at PG is because of his shooting.

I think of UVA last year. Beekman is a PG who can do everything but shoot. His lack of shooting hurt them in numerous games when his guy flat out refused to guard him. As a result, they struggled big time on offense, and if he hasn't improved his shooting enough to at least keep his guy close to him, they will struggle again.
I get the argument and maybe we are not that far off. I agree that our guards need to have a consistent jumper not always a 3 pt shot but there are tons of guards that can iso you…look at my above stat post with league guys. A lot of our stuff is run through the 5 spot making reads and setting pics. Great or even good guards can use that to their advantage.
 

SpiderDad75

Star
Gold Member
May 12, 2020
1,094
2,602
113
I don't think Roche starts initially, but I hope he is starting before too long because that will mean he is hitting threes and playing passable defense. He seems to be the type of weapon we haven't had in a minute – a pure gunner at the 2 spot. We've had good players there, of course, but I can't think of any recently who were true sharpshooters like this at such a high volume.
He’s a volume shooter. I hope he does play solid D. Not rooting against him. If he does those 2 things then he has to be on the floor for sure.
 

VT4700

Graduate Assistant
Dec 16, 2016
4,727
2,127
113
Fair. Let me add this for you stats guys…how many of these guys are 3 pt shooters? VT is right about in the sense they do need a consistent jumper just not a 3 imo.

1. STEPHEN CURRY
1.29 POINTS/ISO
2. CHRIS PAUL
1.24 POINTS/ISO
3. JIMMY BUTLER
1.23 POINTS/ISO
4. KAWHI LEONARD
1.23 POINTS/ISO
5. KEVIN DURANT
1.19 POINTS/ISO
6. LEBRON JAMES
1.18 POINTS/ISO
7. JAMES HARDEN
1.17 POINTS/ISO
Every guy on here can hit an open 20 footer, and has shown they can hit the 3, so whether they are all good 3 point shooters or not is irrelevant because you have to guard all of them. And, if you leave them open from 3, pretty much all of them would shoot a solid percentage from there. I mentioned Beekman earlier. A good example for us would be Khwan Fore. Khwan was a good basketball player for us, but he never developed a consistent 3, and as quick as he was, never really broke down the defense much as a result. He actually shot over 36% and 33% from 3 his 1st 2 years here, but it was low volume, and he was rarely guarded out there. Teams dared him to shoot the 3, and because they played off of him, he could not drive and dish much. He played 34 and 32 minutes a game his 2nd and 3rd years, probably played more PG than ShawnDre did, but only averaged 2.5 and 2.7 assists a game, and many times his guy guarding him could help out elsewhere.
 

VT4700

Graduate Assistant
Dec 16, 2016
4,727
2,127
113
a Magic Johnson type can still play in today's game. if you lay off him, he'll get downhill on you and you don't want that.
LOL. I didn't realize Magic was coming through our doors anytime soon.
 

VT4700

Graduate Assistant
Dec 16, 2016
4,727
2,127
113
I get the argument and maybe we are not that far off. I agree that our guards need to have a consistent jumper not always a 3 pt shot but there are tons of guards that can iso you…look at my above stat post with league guys. A lot of our stuff is run through the 5 spot making reads and setting pics. Great or even good guards can use that to their advantage.
I agree with that. And, I can agree that it doesn't necessarily have to be consistent 3 point shooting, but can be good, solid outside shooting, especially if we have 3 others on the floor who can make the 3. . But, the range needs to be at least close to the 3 point line to keep the defense honest out there. You don't want your guy to be able to clog the lane.
 

spiderman

Spider's Club
Jun 7, 2001
16,927
6,214
113
LOL. I didn't realize Magic was coming through our doors anytime soon.
maybe Dji is Magic Johnson lite!

just saying that type. Princeton has a kid who they isolate up top a ton. can't shoot a lick. but you can't stop him driving and if you double he finds the open shooter. shot 12% from 3 and was POY in the Ivy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SpiderDad75

VT4700

Graduate Assistant
Dec 16, 2016
4,727
2,127
113
I don't think Roche starts initially, but I hope he is starting before too long because that will mean he is hitting threes and playing passable defense. He seems to be the type of weapon we haven't had in a minute – a pure gunner at the 2 spot. We've had good players there, of course, but I can't think of any recently who were true sharpshooters like this at such a high volume.
Blake. Don't forget Blake was coming off of a 102-254 (40.2%) year from 3 at Wagner before transferring here. And, in just 45 games for us, he made 115 3s at a 36+% clip.
 

VT4700

Graduate Assistant
Dec 16, 2016
4,727
2,127
113
maybe Dji is Magic Johnson lite!

just saying that type. Princeton has a kid who they isolate up top a ton. can't shoot a lick. but you can't stop him driving and if you double he finds the open shooter. shot 12% from 3 and was POY in the Ivy.
I hear you, but I doubt he could get away with that against A-10 athletes. I bet Goose could stop him.
 
Last edited:

Latest posts