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Coaching Comparison

K

kneepadmckinney

Team Manager
Jan 23, 2006
1,810
2,580
113
Coach A
274 wins
.532 winning percentage
.514 in-conference winning percentage
4 post-seasons in 11 years in current conference (2 NCAA Tournaments, 1 NIT, 1 CBI)
4 20 win seasons in 11 years in current conference

Coach B
255 wins
.551 winning percentage
.548 in-conference winning percentage
7 post-seasons in 13 years in current conference (2 NCAA Tournaments, 2 NITs, 3 CBI)
5 20 win seasons in 13 years in current conference
 
It's funny you say that, because a whole lotta people would be clamoring for Coach A if that scenario happened. I don't point it out as a defense of Coach B, but rather as an example of what I see as something between selective memory, outright disregard, or straight hypocrisy when it comes to Mooney. He's not a terrible coach, he's not a bad coach, and I'd submit he's a good coach. In fact, he's been objectively more successful than some coaches that others on this board continually praise. Just trying to keep the balance a little.
 
Coach A...obviously Bonnies Coach and B obviously Mooney. Comparing these two programs is not fair. Bonnies might be the hardest place to recruit in US mid-major d1. 1800 students in upstate NY with D3 facilities.
Bonnies were left without a program when Schmidt got there in 2008 after a scandal left the program in shambles so the first three or four years were difficult rebuilds.
CM had inherited a very healthy program that had gone to NCAA two years earlier and the NIT three straight before that.
all I can say is schmidt's program is moving up while Mooney's is in the tank.
 
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fatherspider said:
CM had inherited a very healthy program that had gone to NCAA two years earlier and the NIT three straight before that.
all I can say is schmidt's program is moving up while Mooney's is in the tank.
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Are you kidding me? You have no knowledge of Jerry Wainwright? I grant that the program was better when Beilein was the coach from 1997 to 2002. In Wainwright's first year they went to the NIT, with Beilein's players. I grant that Jerry Wainwright took the Spiders to the NCAA in his second year, but with Beilein's players. Then the chickens came home to roost. Many of Wainwright's players flamed out. There were fist fights among players and our graduation rate plummeted. Wainwright wrecked the program. Wainwright dumped UR and left for DePaul late in the recruiting season. They couldn't get anyone to take over. The cupboard was bare when Mooney came in. During his second year, Mooney's roster totaled 8 players. Others can speak in more depth to the disciplinary problems we had under Wainwright.
But you need to check your facts before you speak.
 
Gallipoli said:
Are you kidding me? You have no knowledge of Jerry Wainwright? I grant that the program was better when Beilein was the coach from 1997 to 2002. In Wainwright's first year they went to the NIT, with Beilein's players. I grant that Jerry Wainwright took the Spiders to the NCAA in his second year, but with Beilein's players. Then the chickens came home to roost. Many of Wainwright's players flamed out. There were fist fights among players and our graduation rate plummeted. Wainwright wrecked the program. Wainwright dumped UR and left for DePaul late in the recruiting season. They couldn't get anyone to take over. The cupboard was bare when Mooney came in. During his second year, Mooney's roster totaled 8 players. Others can speak in more depth to the disciplinary problems we had under Wainwright.
But you need to check your facts before you speak.
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Still nothing to the level of St. Bon. when they were put on probation for three years and lost 3 scholarships. But whatever... the comparison is very dumb. Schmidt has very little to work with and has had some success over the past few years. More than coach B who coaches in a major city with top notch facilities.
 
Gallipoli said:
Are you kidding me? You have no knowledge of Jerry Wainwright? I grant that the program was better when Beilein was the coach from 1997 to 2002. In Wainwright's first year they went to the NIT, with Beilein's players. I grant that Jerry Wainwright took the Spiders to the NCAA in his second year, but with Beilein's players. Then the chickens came home to roost. Many of Wainwright's players flamed out. There were fist fights among players and our graduation rate plummeted. Wainwright wrecked the program. Wainwright dumped UR and left for DePaul late in the recruiting season. They couldn't get anyone to take over. The cupboard was bare when Mooney came in. During his second year, Mooney's roster totaled 8 players. Others can speak in more depth to the disciplinary problems we had under Wainwright.
But you need to check your facts before you speak.
Click to expand...

Facts don't matter to some people. The sensationalism does because people don't fact check. That's what I've noticed with the FireMooneyMafia twitter account. It tweets made up facts but nobody ever checks them to find out that they're spreading lies
 
fatherspider said:
Coach A...obviously Bonnies Coach and B obviously Mooney. Comparing these two programs is not fair. Bonnies might be the hardest place to recruit in US mid-major d1. 1800 students in upstate NY with D3 facilities.
Bonnies were left without a program when Schmidt got there in 2008 after a scandal left the program in shambles so the first three or four years were difficult rebuilds.
CM had inherited a very healthy program that had gone to NCAA two years earlier and the NIT three straight before that.
all I can say is schmidt's program is moving up while Mooney's is in the tank.
Click to expand...

Bonna isn't even the hardest place to recruit in the A-10. Also, Mooney took over a program with no actual guards on the roster, and a bunch of transfers. This is one example of either selective memory or outright disregard. Jer did NOT leave the program in good shape. Suggesting otherwise is alternative facts.

For the record, if you forced me to pick one, I'd choose Mark Schmidt as well, because I think he is more adaptable to what he has at his disposal, and I think he teaches defense better.
 
We've had 2 NIT trips in the past 7 years to be fair. In regards to Schmidt vs. Mooney. It should be significantly more difficult to recruit in Olean, NY with their resources than in Richmond Virginia with ours.

Also, look at the nice roster balance for St. Bonnie. 3 seniors, 3 juniors, 3 sophomores, 4 freshman.

Schmidt and Mooney both started with bare cupboards as well, but only one of them started with a massive national scandal.

The biggest question, I have though, is Schmidt a nice guy?
 
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97spiderfan said:
We've had 2 NIT trips in the past 7 years to be fair. In regards to Schmidt vs. Mooney. It should be significantly more difficult to recruit in Olean, NY with their resources than in Richmond Virginia with ours.

Also, look at the nice roster balance for St. Bonnie. 3 seniors, 3 juniors, 3 sophomores, 4 freshman.

Schmidt and Mooney both started with bare cupboards as well, but only one of them started with a massive national scandal.

The biggest question, I have though, is Schmidt a nice guy?
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Yes, he is a nice guy and good friend of Coach Mooney, for whom Schmidt has a ton of respect.
 
In blind statistical comparisons of Mooney to other A10 coaches, Mooney will tend to come out on top. Only VCU, Dayton, and perhaps Davidson now, have obviously better performance in terms of NCAA bids and wins over the past decade. People don't want an above average A10 team though, they want a team that gets bids.
 
fan2011 said:
In blind statistical comparisons of Mooney to other A10 coaches, Mooney will tend to come out on top. Only VCU, Dayton, and perhaps Davidson now, have obviously better performance in terms of NCAA bids and wins over the past decade. People don't want an above average A10 team though, they want a team that gets bids.
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What I am wondering is how do the schools/coaches stack up by 22 or more regular season wins & NCAA appearances over the last 4, 8, & 12 years?
 
plydogg said:
Facts don't matter to some people. The sensationalism does because people don't fact check. That's what I've noticed with the FireMooneyMafia twitter account. It tweets made up facts but nobody ever checks them to find out that they're spreading lies
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What exactly is a "FACT" from what he says? Two years before CM got there the team made the NCAA's and three straight NIT's prior to that. There may have been issues but that doesn't sound like a program that was on probation for 3 years and lost 3 scholarships, like SBU Players still thought the UR program was in good shape to succeed.
 
kneepadmckinney said:
Bonna isn't even the hardest place to recruit in the A-10. Also, Mooney took over a program with no actual guards on the roster, and a bunch of transfers. This is one example of either selective memory or outright disregard. Jer did NOT leave the program in good shape. Suggesting otherwise is alternative facts.

For the record, if you forced me to pick one, I'd choose Mark Schmidt as well, because I think he is more adaptable to what he has at his disposal, and I think he teaches defense better.
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It wasn't in absolute tire fire condition either... as was St. Bonnie's. Richmond had good success in the recent past and though there were issues that made it hard to succeed immediately, recruits still saw a program that had a good chance of succeeding. And they came. Schmidt had no chance of getting guys to buy in early in his tenure. That was the comparison.
 
fatherspider said:
What exactly is a "FACT" from what he says? Two years before CM got there the team made the NCAA's and three straight NIT's prior to that. There may have been issues but that doesn't sound like a program that was on probation for 3 years and lost 3 scholarships, like SBU Players still thought the UR program was in good shape to succeed.
Click to expand...

That post was in reference to 0 NCAA's in the past 7 years being a valid argument but saying, ok, 2 in the past 9 isn't valid and can only be used as 2 of the past 13 years. The Fire Mooney side always cherrypicks what is valid and what isn't based on what helps their argument. That's all I was trying to say.
 
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plydogg said:
That post was in reference to 0 NCAA's in the past 7 years being a valid argument but saying, ok, 2 in the past 9 isn't valid and can only be used as 2 of the past 13 years. The Fire Mooney side always cherrypicks what is valid and what isn't based on what helps their argument. That's all I was trying to say.
Click to expand...
Agree that facts should be stated fairly. 2 NCAA trips in 13 years.
 
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plydogg said:
That post was in reference to 0 NCAA's in the past 7 years being a valid argument but saying, ok, 2 in the past 9 isn't valid and can only be used as 2 of the past 13 years. The Fire Mooney side always cherrypicks what is valid and what isn't based on what helps their argument. That's all I was trying to say.
Click to expand...

Seven years, $30 million dollars (More than that if you include charters, etc.), and zero NCAA tournament bids.

How does this not upset you?
 
It does upset me kind sir. I was with the plydogg's of the world the last 7, hoping I was wrong and what my eyes told me was a lie, and trying to cherry pick the stats for the truther side. I can no longer do this. I have held out hope the last 2-3 years, though without much confidence. Now I have lost total confidence that Mooney is deserving of running this program. I am tired of thinking we are just too small, too tough academically, all the excuses that I saw Mr. Tarrant kick in the nuts and bulldozer through. JB would have won huge too for 4 more years if we could have kept him and his son. I just don't see Mooney being resourceful enough to have that kind of success.
 
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The last 7 years area a good measuring stick to me because that's the length of time Mooney has been earning $1.2 mil a year. We upped our investment in him and in the program tremendously after the Sweet 16, and we have almost nothing to show for it.
 
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I think it is being mistaken that I am saying I love Mooney and will forever support him. That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm just looking, if every thread is going to turn into anti-Mooney, that the stats/facts that are brought up are just brought up in total and not have any cherry picked. The best way to win a debate is to not let your opponent devalue your arguments and points by proving they aren't entirely factually correct.
 
Most of us here would feel much differently about things if Mooney had 2 NCAA berths but they had come this year and last year, instead of 7 and 8 years ago. It's factually correct to say we've missed 7 straight tournaments and it's factually correct to say we've made 2 in 13 years, too.
 
Eight Legger said:
Most of us here would feel much differently about things if Mooney had 2 NCAA berths but they had come this year and last year, instead of 7 and 8 years ago. It's factually correct to say we've missed 7 straight tournaments and it's factually correct to say we've made 2 in 13 years, too.
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But it is also factually correct that we've made 2 in the past 9 years. Mostly I'm talking about the troll Fire Mooney Mafia twitter account but when that point is made they say it is an irrelevant point and isn't valid. Guess I still have some pent up frustration with them and not any of you LOL
 
plydogg said:
But it is also factually correct that we've made 2 in the past 9 years. Mostly I'm talking about the troll Fire Mooney Mafia twitter account but when that point is made they say it is an irrelevant point and isn't valid. Guess I still have some pent up frustration with them and not any of you LOL
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I am not that twitter account, but I do think he/she is providing a quality service. I went to the game at URI and met a URI buddy for a drink. First thing his friends ask me: Are you part of the Fire Mooney Mafia? Then we got into a discussion about how Mooney had become like the URI version of CFL (Coach For Life) Jim Barron. Always show a few glimpses but cannot quite get to the top of the mountain. At least Mooney has gone to 2 NCAA's in 13 years (please someone fact check this), while Barron never went at URI, I don't think.
 
spider23 said:
I am not that twitter account, but I do think he/she is providing a quality service. I went to the game at URI and met a URI buddy for a drink. First thing his friends ask me: Are you part of the Fire Mooney Mafia? Then we got into a discussion about how Mooney had become like the URI version of CFL (Coach For Life) Jim Barron. Always show a few glimpses but cannot quite get to the top of the mountain. At least Mooney has gone to 2 NCAA's in 13 years (please someone fact check this), while Barron never went at URI, I don't think.
Click to expand...

I think the message is good but the delivery is awful.
 
plydogg said:
But it is also factually correct that we've made 2 in the past 9 years. Mostly I'm talking about the troll Fire Mooney Mafia twitter account but when that point is made they say it is an irrelevant point and isn't valid. Guess I still have some pent up frustration with them and not any of you LOL
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Yeah, but this is how life works. We all pay more attention to what has happened recently.

If you're a salesperson and 8 years ago you closed a huge sale but since then your sales have declined every year or leveled out, and you go to your boss asking for a raise on the basis of that huge sale you closed 8 years ago, what do you think your boss is going to say?
 
Eight Legger said:
Yeah, but this is how life works. We all pay more attention to what has happened recently.

If you're a salesperson and 8 years ago you closed a huge sale but since then your sales have declined every year or leveled out, and you go to your boss asking for a raise on the basis of that huge sale you closed 8 years ago, what do you think your boss is going to say?
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You bring up a good idea. Put Mooney on commission? $50,000 per win?
 
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Eight Legger said:
Yeah, but this is how life works. We all pay more attention to what has happened recently.

If you're a salesperson and 8 years ago you closed a huge sale but since then your sales have declined every year or leveled out, and you go to your boss asking for a raise on the basis of that huge sale you closed 8 years ago, what do you think your boss is going to say?
Click to expand...
I think you maybe get the "no handshake" when you show up at the office?
 
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fatherspider said:
It wasn't in absolute tire fire condition either... as was St. Bonnie's. Richmond had good success in the recent past and though there were issues that made it hard to succeed immediately, recruits still saw a program that had a good chance of succeeding. And they came. Schmidt had no chance of getting guys to buy in early in his tenure. That was the comparison.
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The Bonnie’s troubles were in 2002-2003 & 2003-2004.

Mooney lost to the Bonnies in 2006 & 2007. But beat them 2008, 2009, 2010, & 2011. Schmidt’s first 4 years...

{The above is a humorous attempt at spin and is not to be taken as a serious endorsement of anything, except humor}
 
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