I do not disagree but to ignore the regular season results, where UR could not secure a top 4 slot, and tout only the tournament done the hard way as coaching superiority is a bit of disingenuous reasoning.
Coaches vs VCU
- Thread starter urfan1
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Fine, but it's all opinion. Yes, I would rather win the A-10 tourney and a 1st round dance game than have my favorite NFL team win the Super Bowl, and to me, it's not even close. If you would need the final four, fine. I'm surprised you or anyone would say this, but fine.
The negativity on here is what it is. It won't change. Not as long as a person they hate with a passion is our coach. 24-7 in 2020 didn't change it and an A-10 tourney title and a dance win over Iowa just 2 years after 24-7 still didn't change it. Nothing will. If you think anything will, you are kidding yourself.
Oh I agree. I think it’s disingenuous either way to pin it on just coaching or playing. Both matter.
What’s not really debatable is if the results aren’t there, you tend not to keep the coach.
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I don’t think this is accurate. Many people were pleased with 2020. It felt a bit empty as there was no postseason which is what most on this board care about.
Similarly, I think folks were pleased (overall) that we made the tourney last year. Of course there are some folks who feel that it established a recommitment to CM that was perhaps dubiously earned, and I think many people would prefer to see CM repeat his success before we grant him a multi year contract.
That’s hard to argue after a long ncaa drought. And it doesn’t look like we’re terribly competitive right now so it’s hard for anyone to feel like a repeat of last year is forthcoming
Are we comparing apples to apples? It’s been stated on this board how VCU is able
to accept kids with far lower academic qualifications that frankly couldn’t get
into Richmond.
Does anyone know for sure or is it just our deserved bravado?
to accept kids with far lower academic qualifications that frankly couldn’t get
into Richmond.
Does anyone know for sure or is it just our deserved bravado?
Historically true, and probably to some lesser extent still true. But as a general rule, I think we now have reasonable options to get in players who may not have qualified in the past.
T, I haven’t heard of anything like that. What makes you think so?
I hope you’re right, but I’m not so sure.
I hope you’re right, but I’m not so sure.
Mr. 80s fan who is a friend of PQ and apparently on staff at UR has explicitly stated admissions no longer a problem.
We missed the tournament for 11 straight years. Sorry, but making it one time doesn't counterbalance that.
I agree, it does not. Which is why he would immediately have to produce several consistent promising performances to reset perception. So far not doing it.
Wow, you guys are tough.
Maybe Coach K will come out of retirement and take our
mid-major program to the Final 4
Maybe Coach K will come out of retirement and take our
mid-major program to the Final 4
I didn't see anyone suggesting that we should be making Final Fours. Maybe you are able to see invisible ink? But we are suggesting that underachievement and mediocrity are the lasting legacies of this coach after 18 years. If we make four NCAAs in the next six years or something, that will change.
We don't need records of coaches vs VCU.
We just need to remember - both VCU and UR were at the same exact location in the basketball landscape when UR made the sweet 16 and VCU ended up in the final four. Richmond as a city, for both VCU and UR were the pinnacle of college hoops for about 2 weeks. Then following that great success for both programs - UR was not able to capitalize and VCU was able to. Even with VCU being in the lower league at the time - CAA, we still couldn't capitalize, and when VCU joined the A10 they didn't skip a beat. They have not even skipped a beat when changing coaches - something they have had to do 2 times since that run, and we have not.
We are in the same city, only separated by a few miles. No one would argue we have the nicer campus, and likely the nicer facilities. I don't think anyone would argue that for most majors - UR degree is worth more than a VCU degree - but none of that has mattered on the basketball court. For some reason - they have taken the next step. Even in years like this one - where they are not expected to be very good - they seem to surprise and find their way to the top of the league. I am not sure they are an NCAA team this year, but they are putting themselves in position to be mentioned at least.
We just need to remember - both VCU and UR were at the same exact location in the basketball landscape when UR made the sweet 16 and VCU ended up in the final four. Richmond as a city, for both VCU and UR were the pinnacle of college hoops for about 2 weeks. Then following that great success for both programs - UR was not able to capitalize and VCU was able to. Even with VCU being in the lower league at the time - CAA, we still couldn't capitalize, and when VCU joined the A10 they didn't skip a beat. They have not even skipped a beat when changing coaches - something they have had to do 2 times since that run, and we have not.
We are in the same city, only separated by a few miles. No one would argue we have the nicer campus, and likely the nicer facilities. I don't think anyone would argue that for most majors - UR degree is worth more than a VCU degree - but none of that has mattered on the basketball court. For some reason - they have taken the next step. Even in years like this one - where they are not expected to be very good - they seem to surprise and find their way to the top of the league. I am not sure they are an NCAA team this year, but they are putting themselves in position to be mentioned at least.
Excellent point Trap, I think I alluded to this on another thread. I know the pro truther crowd has a long list of excuses, but damn - even with a broken foot and one hand tied behind his back, Moon was in a great great position to capitalize, but let it slip away. Crazy to revisit, I think this is where the 10 year contract really, really was a bad idea and big time demotivator.
I can only imagine if we had Hardt and this settler mindest that has permeated our athletic department in late 90's early 2000's, when we made the switch to the A-10. We would have never made that move, we would have been content with where we were, because no one would have articulated and pushed for being better.
Boone and Miller both pushed our athletics forward through bold moves and it is sad they were followed 10 years Gill and Hardt who both just seemingly want to maintain the status quo. Heck, we let Keith Gill run the department from DC, while he was here.
That's why they keep, Mooney, he is a status quo guy, hell he is the definition of status quo. Hardt loves him some Mooney for this very reason
Instead of chili cook off, should have Moon and Rhoades play 1 on 1.
And I agree w what Trap said re: similar spots, tho VCU was still expected to be good this year (picked 3rd A10 & nobody is surprised they r top dog in A10 again except primarily this board). But to me a core reason why they r always expected to be good by many....is because they expect to be very good themselves year after year. Different mindset. Reload never rebuild.
To your point 23, the 3 year extension (to make 5 years left on deal) is not far behind the 10 year contract. That summer extension continues to indicate our admin & big hat no cattle Hardt just don't get it. Negotiating against yourself is a strange thing but something to be said for the demotivation, lack of urgency whatever u want to call it too. I haven't said 1 word this year about fire Mooney, or new coach candidates etc. Because pointless. Last year there was a decent chance, and then at halftime of the Rhody A10 game a very good chance. This year none, not with 4 years after this one left. Just won't ever get why a 1 year extension was not reasonable given we had been saddled with a previous long term deal that clearly didn't give us options.
8legs1dream
Team Manager
I don't have a problem with the long term deal or deals like that - but 2 things have to happen if you do a deal like that - 10 years, either protect yourself with a reasonable buyout after 5 years. Or have enough in the bank after 5 years to pay off the contract IF NEEDED. I say 5 years because I think that is the longest we should go between dances.
But I agree with statement above - VCU expects to be good every year. No excuses. Reload. Don’t rebuild. And they get guys to help now. Prime example is transfer they got from Michigan. You can see the difference between him and Quinn. That kid is ready to go and be a main part of VCU now. Quinn is still learning, still getting stronger, still getting used to this level of play etc.
Yes , announcers made the point about John's (big Michigan transfer) and Quinn as well. Just a big difference in strength and athleticism.
I am kind of like GK, not wasting nearly the energy on wanting Mooney gone this year bc ship has sailed. Same thing with the defeatist attitude, can't change the 80s fans of the world, only thing will change if we get a new AD and new attitude from admin.
I am kind of like GK, not wasting nearly the energy on wanting Mooney gone this year bc ship has sailed. Same thing with the defeatist attitude, can't change the 80s fans of the world, only thing will change if we get a new AD and new attitude from admin.
The really frustrating thing about this year (so far... yes, I realize many things *could* still happen) is that this was our chance to turn the corner from once-every-11-years to legit-program status by reloading on the fly like a real program and fighting for an at-large bid or for the conference title again. That's how you build momentum and how you build a program rather than a team.
Instead, it appears we are heading backwards so far. If we end up finishing sixth or eighth or something, winning a game in the A10s and then getting bounced, we've blown the chance to elevate ourselves. But that's good enough for the powers that be, I guess, so we just have to accept it and be content with 15-point home wins against the LaSalles of the world.
Instead, it appears we are heading backwards so far. If we end up finishing sixth or eighth or something, winning a game in the A10s and then getting bounced, we've blown the chance to elevate ourselves. But that's good enough for the powers that be, I guess, so we just have to accept it and be content with 15-point home wins against the LaSalles of the world.
Yep EL, I went I to this season thinking, maybe Mooney can use this and turn the corner. Did a nice job in the portal. Then I hear him talking about Boydens ideas on defense, and wow it seems that we are improving on this area. But now the wind is out of the sails and basically waiting for the jaynel/ T Smith back court to mature.
No doubt Mooney could back down Rhoades down in the paint, but only if it fit his offensive scheme.
Tarrant did more with less and in spite of the endless and limitless excuses there is no reason we can't be in the NCAA tournament every third season at least. In years we are not in NCAA we should be NIT. Should be easier to achieve if the NCAA changes to the proposed 25% of all teams in postseason which would put The Dance at around 90 teams. CM has already voiced his support for that idea,
Tarrant was probably more in line with old school way of making corrections in practice, etc. But a very smart guy and would have adjusted to today's athlete. Real straight shooter. He had a radio show where you could actually call in and ask him questions, and you did not get screened for asking a tough question. Other than calling into his show some, I think the only time I interacted with him was the first football game my freshman year. I had on a Richmond basketball shirt, he was walking by with a recruit, and stopped me to compliment me on my shirt and chat for a minute.
He did get some talent, and he was not afraid to portal a bit as needed. He could adjust. I remember ( and fans complained about this back in the day too - even though i know it is so unfair to point out mooney's man shortcomings) he would slow it down when we were overmatched, and ratchet it up vs weaker opponents. Still remember the game he started walk on Muldowney at PG in the second half. Great coach.
In another post I showed that SRS is higher this season than beating Auburn, beating Syracuse, or making the sweet sixteen which makes the rating, shall we say "Suspect".
However looking at seasons with SRS of 6 or greater. We have 14.
Tarrant had 2 (1 was NCAA) in 13 years
Wainwright had 2 (1 was NCAA) in 3 years
Beilein had 2 (1 was NCAA other was 2001) in 5 years
Mooney has had 8 (3 were NCAA or 4 if 2020) in 18 years
Only Tarrant had NCAA with a lower SRS and he had 4 more, some validated with an NCAA win.
Part of the above could be that we now play more games against strong teams.
However we should also have more to offer recruits than we did in the past.
And I assume we should count other teams in the conference as peers?
And none of this speaks to the "eye test".
