Coach Boyden

brooklyn brownstone

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Like what I see so far on defense. All the switching, some improv double teaming following hedges, but with good rotations afterward. Teams will start trying to isolate Quinn by forcing a switch using high ball screens, we'll have to be ready for that but overall no complaints. The guard/wing defense has been working and minutes distribution has been to go with whoever is playing best. First game Dji got minutes, tonight Marcus and Roche took more.
 
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SpiderDad75

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Like what I see so far on defense. All the switching, some improv double teaming following hedges, but with good rotations afterward. Teams will start trying to isolate Quinn by forcing a switch using high ball screens, we'll have to be ready for that but overall no complaints. The guard/wing defense has been working and minutes distribution has been to go with whoever is playing best. First game Dji got minutes, tonight Marcus and Roche took more.
Love coach and his energy. Guys really like him too. Not sure if you noticed but we have also started to ice screens too forcing to baseline. The only issue with that is if you have an elite guard who can snake well (like Born) it could be an issue but I love what we are doing defensively. Fun team to watch.
 

urmite

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it's only 2 games but this looks like it could be one of the best defensive teams of the Mooney era.

I credit the guys on the floor (and the guys who recruited them), but the timing of it sure makes it seem Boyden has had a hand in it.
I agree. Especially if no one scores over 55 against us this season… ;)
 

fan2011

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Yes, this is what happens when you get new faces and ideas on your coaching staff. I know Jones, and all were great guys and loyal soldiers, but was refreshing to hear Mooney give credit to - and incorporating input from Boyden. Hope we can hold onto him for a couple years. He seems like a good one.
It is also what happens when you have a lot of length and athleticism on the court, players who can guard many positions, and a deep bench. Switching is harder to exploit, we can be more aggressive and not worry as much about fouling out. Boyden and the coaching staff seem to be taking full advantage of our personnel on defense.
 

97spiderfan

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It is also what happens when you have a lot of length and athleticism on the court, players who can guard many positions, and a deep bench. Switching is harder to exploit, we can be more aggressive and not worry as much about fouling out. Boyden and the coaching staff seem to be taking full advantage of our personnel on defense.
Agreed. In comparison to last year, with Gilly (steal artist, occasionally to our detriment). Cayo, (solid but slow,) Grant (who largely rested on defense) and Sherod (injuries greatly slowed him) we now have guys like Dji, Bigelow who are super athletic lanky players and Quinn, who seems initially to enjoy defense and might be a better rim protector than Grant.

Last year's team was not a great defensive team, but they were very lethal on the offensive end. This year seems to be the opposite, potential to be great on defense but will struggle at times on the offensive end of things. Mooney has always preached defense, so have to imagine, he is excited to have a team with great potential and fundamentals defensively.
 

spider23

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Yes, definitely have some players with better foot speed and length. Also seeing guys willing to throw their body in the way, take a charge, or just get in the way. Heck, Dji took or tried to take more charges in a five minute span than I did in four years of high school :). Between Goose, Dji, Bigelow you have three guys that can effectively guard multiple positions. Really like JayNel's competitive nature. He is quick and battles.
 

MrTbone

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97, don't see this at all. Exact opposite, his focus has always been on the O. Normally, we are sub par on D.
I am far from a Mooney apologist but go back and look at CMs first five seasons here. Defense was always an emphasis and generally performed well or very well. Been less true of late though I’d agree.
 

SpiderDad75

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For those of you that have been around...how does this defense this year look (and I know we only have a small sample size so far) compared to some of the better teams or is the jury still out? Or just the defensive potential compared to the better teams in the past
 

whampas

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Mooney initially employed a matchup zone whose novelty made it very tough on opponents until it was figured out. He was reluctant to change and we suffered defensively for years because of that. This edition of man to man seems capable compared to the last several. I just wish we would throw in a 1-3-1, 2-3 or the old matchup from time to time to give the opposition something to think about.
 
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SpiderDad75

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Mooney initially employed a matchup zone whose novelty made it very tough on opponents until it was figured out. He was reluctant to change and we suffered defensively for years because of that. This edition of man to man seems capable compared to the last several. I just wish we would throw in a 1-3-1, 2-3 or the old matchup from time to time to give the opposition something to think about.
Gotcha...They have toyed around with the 1-3-1 but not sure if it will turn into anything.
 
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spiderman

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For those of you that have been around...how does this defense this year look (and I know we only have a small sample size so far) compared to some of the better teams or is the jury still out? Or just the defensive potential compared to the better teams in the past
I thought this looked like potentially Mooney's best defensive team.
I'm guessing my mind would be changed if I saw the CofC game.
 

brooklyn brownstone

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tough to compare so far to previous teams bc of small sample size. The matchup worked until teams figured out how to switch us into bad mismatches - Samhan for St. Mary's murdered our defense on switches in NCAA game a decade plus ago. Man defense has potential this year IMO and having a legit 7 footer at the back hopefully can be a deterrent even if he's not a huge shot blocker, if Quinn can just use size to force altered shots, that's a good result.

Did VMI shoot poorly bc of our defense or bc they're bad shooters? Same for UNI. Did CoC perform better bc one guy got hot, even though rest of team was pedestrian from 3? (Note: I could only listen to this game, so don't have ability to really comment except on the fact that we gave up a ton of points.). I don't see a Tony Dobbins level stopper on this team but am hopeful we have multiple guys - Goose, Bailey, Bigelow - who can guard athletic wings successfully and are big enough to affect 3 point attempts regularly. Interior defense will be an issue IMO against bigger, physical players. There will be at least one game - possibly at Barclays - where I think we'll see big time foul trouble on the front line.

I do think that we've had way too many instances already of flying past the 3 point shooter on fakes (flying dutchman?) and fouling 3 point shooters is never acceptable. Taking charges has been good but the new rule will mitigate the ability to do that as much as we want - I'd love to have those 2 first half points back from CoC game.

Lastly, the final element of defense is getting the defensive rebound. I don't think this team has been great so far this year. VMI grabbed a bunch of offensive rebounds early in that game and CoC essentially saved their game via offensive rebounds late. So I can't give the team a pass on defense without considering that. And again, I think this may be an issue because of our interior defense struggling to play defense and then also box out, turn and explode for rebounds. If guards crash and ball gets tipped out, now there are open 3 point shooters.

Overall I'm at a B- because defense cost us a game already. Potential is there IMO, esp compared to last year's team where I wasn't super high on Grant, Cayo (guarding perimeter) and Nick on defense especially if Gilly was gambling for steals.
 

SpiderDad75

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tough to compare so far to previous teams bc of small sample size. The matchup worked until teams figured out how to switch us into bad mismatches - Samhan for St. Mary's murdered our defense on switches in NCAA game a decade plus ago. Man defense has potential this year IMO and having a legit 7 footer at the back hopefully can be a deterrent even if he's not a huge shot blocker, if Quinn can just use size to force altered shots, that's a good result.

Did VMI shoot poorly bc of our defense or bc they're bad shooters? Same for UNI. Did CoC perform better bc one guy got hot, even though rest of team was pedestrian from 3? (Note: I could only listen to this game, so don't have ability to really comment except on the fact that we gave up a ton of points.). I don't see a Tony Dobbins level stopper on this team but am hopeful we have multiple guys - Goose, Bailey, Bigelow - who can guard athletic wings successfully and are big enough to affect 3 point attempts regularly. Interior defense will be an issue IMO against bigger, physical players. There will be at least one game - possibly at Barclays - where I think we'll see big time foul trouble on the front line.

I do think that we've had way too many instances already of flying past the 3 point shooter on fakes (flying dutchman?) and fouling 3 point shooters is never acceptable. Taking charges has been good but the new rule will mitigate the ability to do that as much as we want - I'd love to have those 2 first half points back from CoC game.

Lastly, the final element of defense is getting the defensive rebound. I don't think this team has been great so far this year. VMI grabbed a bunch of offensive rebounds early in that game and CoC essentially saved their game via offensive rebounds late. So I can't give the team a pass on defense without considering that. And again, I think this may be an issue because of our interior defense struggling to play defense and then also box out, turn and explode for rebounds. If guards crash and ball gets tipped out, now there are open 3 point shooters.

Overall I'm at a B- because defense cost us a game already. Potential is there IMO, esp compared to last year's team where I wasn't super high on Grant, Cayo (guarding perimeter) and Nick on defense especially if Gilly was gambling for steals.
Thanks...very solid breakdown. I hear you on the charges...It will be interesting to see how they are called after Christmas and in Conf play. I still like our guys busting their tails so far. My main issue and is prob everyone else's as well is, the inconsistency of the hardest call in the game. CoC got away with a couple in the 2nd half and if you are going to call them and it be a point of emphasis, then for me it doesn't matter if a guy legit flops at the end of the game esp... call it.
 

brooklyn brownstone

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agree. Tyler's 38 points have a highlight reel on youtube via a mid-major youtube so I was able to see the no-flop call late on the bucket he made and my god, the guy takes a dive and Tyler then 2 seconds later finally goes up and makes the shot so there is a relatively large separation of time that makes it even more obvious it is a flop. How the ref - standing right there - cannot look at that and say it's not a flop or a charge, I don't know. A guy is lying on the ground in front of him and it wasn't a play on type scenario where there's a bit of contact but not enough to justify a call - the guy went down as if he'd been run over, so it HAS to be a call, otherwise you're just ignoring the rule because it's late in the game, which is the sign of a horrendous rule.

Other point I wanted to make and forgot was how in the NCAA game vs Iowa, they talked about how physical we were. I'd love to see more of that again if the refs will let them play, but the depth in the front line becomes an issue if refs are whistle happy. It happened Tyler's freshman year at Barclays in first half vs Auburn, where Grant, Cayo and Grace all got 2 fouls and a freshman Tyler 3 while having to play the 5 bc Auburn was playing so physically but they whistled UR for all the fouls when Spiders did the same. Some refs get caught up in venue, big name team and think they need to show out. Barclays especially has been home to some ref nightmares for UR.
 
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plydogg

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agree. Tyler's 38 points have a highlight reel on youtube via a mid-major youtube so I was able to see the no-flop call late on the bucket he made and my god, the guy takes a dive and Tyler then 2 seconds later finally goes up and makes the shot so there is a relatively large separation of time that makes it even more obvious it is a flop. How the ref - standing right there - cannot look at that and say it's not a flop or a charge, I don't know. A guy is lying on the ground in front of him and it wasn't a play on type scenario where there's a bit of contact but not enough to justify a call - the guy went down as if he'd been run over, so it HAS to be a call, otherwise you're just ignoring the rule because it's late in the game, which is the sign of a horrendous rule.

What makes this even worse is earlier in the game, at some point after the 2 flops were called on us, the broadcast came back from commercial and the announcers said they had just had a chance to talk to the refs. They asked the refs if that is a call they would make with a minute left in the game in crunch time or only early on. The ref told them they would call it at any point in any game, no matter the scenario.

So the refs lied, which sucks. But it is what it is. Just thought it was pretty hilarious that an hour after saying that they did the exact opposite.

At the end of the day Don’t foul on a 3 or on a drive to the bucket and we win that game.
 

spiderman

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thanks, Brooklyn. I searched "Burton 38" and saw the highlights.
wish I could see the flops called on us, if they were similar.
the one in quesiton is a flop, but it's borderline. the defender threw himself back. I think if he fell right to the ground it would get called. he kind of stumbled instead. certainly exagerated the contact though. borderline, but I think I'd call it with today's rules.
 

brooklyn brownstone

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Sman, if they hadn't called 2 on UR already, they could have ignored. But to have set the precedent, reinforced it with a 2nd such call AND now I'm learning they told the broadcasters they'd call it anytime - so for me, that's a must-call.

Anyone know if it was the same ref who whistled either of the other 2? I know on the radio call BB was calling out Jamie Luckey as not being a ref he was particularly enamored of seeing on the court (as was SF here as well, props to him for that.)
 

spider23

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Mooney initially employed a matchup zone whose novelty made it very tough on opponents until it was figured out. He was reluctant to change and we suffered defensively for years because of that. This edition of man to man seems capable compared to the last several. I just wish we would throw in a 1-3-1, 2-3 or the old matchup from time to time to give the opposition something to think about.
This is in perfect unison with my thoughts on Mooney and defense. He had great success early with the "match up" , but after it was figured out he kept going and going and going with it. I too would love to see us through some sort of change up defense for a few possessions, get really good at it so it throws a wrench in the other team's O. Especially when the other team has taken a TO to figure out what they are doing wrong on O.

As a positive, I find it very positive that he does appear to be using input from Boyden, and glad Boyden has the voice. I mean I understand that assistants throughout the years probably gave suggestions, but I never recall Mooney using them much, or especially giving them credit. Hopefully he starts adapting faster, he is showing signs after this offseason.
 
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SpiderDad75

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Sman, if they hadn't called 2 on UR already, they could have ignored. But to have set the precedent, reinforced it with a 2nd such call AND now I'm learning they told the broadcasters they'd call it anytime - so for me, that's a must-call.

Anyone know if it was the same ref who whistled either of the other 2? I know on the radio call BB was calling out Jamie Luckey as not being a ref he was particularly enamored of seeing on the court (as was SF here as well, props to him for that.)
Almost positive they were both Luckey...Dji's was for sure.
 

urmite

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How many Techs has Luckie called on Mooney over the years?

And then there is Ted Valentine, known as TV, as in "I need to find a way to be noticed"...
 
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