CHECKS AND BALANCES

Sep 14, 2019
180
61
28
I understand your position. I just disagree. And I know that I will never convince you, but I believe history will show how awful an influence he has had on our democracy...and on our children as a role model...and...and...and, ad nauseum.

My problem is in accepting that there is a better than 50 chance that he will win reelection...that is to say, that he will win the electoral college vote.
 

Spiderwiz

Letter Winner
Gold Member
Oct 19, 2012
374
244
43
all of the problems and divisiveness in our country is from your side while the rest of us go about our business.

Few things, in my experience, are ever 100-0 or 0-100, particularly in politics. This, of course, could simply be attributed to a misguided approach of listening to and reading from multiple sources. To quote our president, “You also had some very fine people on both sides”.
 

WebSpinner

Spider's Club
Gold Member
May 7, 2003
20,520
825
113
wiz, your last quote is why i keep telling you guys that you are misinformed, uninformed. if you would ever watch the entire statement and not just what fake news showed you, will understand what he was saying and it is not what they told you or what you think. find the statement and listen to it all, unedited, not just a snippet provided by a news source attempting to mislead, misinform. all i know is that all the resistors, the people in the street in other people's faces, those blocking speakers from campus, those creating false allegations against the president are all on one team and it is not my team. the president is attempting to save our democracy not attack it, just silly. our democracy can be cratered and it will be by socialists/communists not by trump.
 

Spiderwiz

Letter Winner
Gold Member
Oct 19, 2012
374
244
43
Web, thank you for the edification but I did watch the entire performance and I remain at the same level of enlightenment then as now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: urfan1

WebSpinner

Spider's Club
Gold Member
May 7, 2003
20,520
825
113
so wiz, you know he was not referring to the white supremacist group at all, right?
 
Sep 14, 2019
180
61
28
so wiz, you know he was not referring to the white supremacist group at all, right?

I guess that reasonable people may differ. Decide for yourself.

Link:
Full text: Trump’s comments on white supremacists, ‘alt-left’ in Charlottesville

Quote:
"TRUMP: I will tell you something. I watched those very closely, much more closely than you people watched it. And you had, you had a group on one side that was bad. And you had a group on the other side that was also very violent. And nobody wants to say that, but I'll say it right now. You had a group – you had a group on the other side that came charging in without a permit, and they were very, very violent.
...

"
REPORTER: Mr. President, are you putting what you’re calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?


TRUMP: I am not putting anybody on a moral plane, what I’m saying is this: you had a group on one side and a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs and it was vicious and horrible and it was a horrible thing to watch, but there is another side. There was a group on this side, you can call them the left. You’ve just called them the left, that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that's the way it is.

REPORTER: You said there was hatred and violence on both sides?

TRUMP: I do think there is blame – yes, I think there is blame on both sides. You look at, you look at both sides. I think there’s blame on both sides, and I have no doubt about it, and you don't have any doubt about it either. And, and, and, and if you reported it accurately, you would say.

REPORTER: The neo-Nazis started this thing. They showed up in Charlottesville.

TRUMP: Excuse me, they didn't put themselves down as neo-Nazis, and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group – excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down, of to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.

REPORTER: George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same.

TRUMP: Oh no, George Washington was a slave owner. Was George Washington a slave owner? So will George Washington now lose his status? Are we going to take down – excuse me. Are we going to take down, are we going to take down statues to George Washington? How about Thomas Jefferson? What do you think of Thomas Jefferson? You like him? Okay, good. Are we going to take down his statue? He was a major slave owner. Are we going to take down his statue? You know what? It’s fine, you’re changing history, you’re changing culture, and you had people – and I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally – but you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists, okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly. Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people, but you also had troublemakers and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets and with the baseball bats – you had a lot of bad people in the other group too.

REPORTER: I just didn’t understand what you were saying. You were saying the press has treated white nationalists unfairly?

TRUMP: No, no. There were people in that rally, and I looked the night before. If you look, they were people protesting very quietly, the taking down the statue of Robert E. Lee. I’m sure in that group there were some bad ones. The following day, it looked like they had some rough, bad people, neo-Nazis, white nationalists, whatever you want to call ‘em. But you had a lot of people in that group that were there to innocently protest and very legally protest, because you know, I don't know if you know, but they had a permit. The other group didn't have a permit. So I only tell you this: there are two sides to a story. I thought what took place was a horrible moment for our country, a horrible moment. But there are two sides to the country. Does anybody have a final – does anybody have a final question? You have an infrastructure question."
 

urfan1

Moderator
Moderator
Jan 9, 2003
18,080
4,118
113
I have a hard time saying these were "good people" when this is how they began their pre-rally march the night before.

The marchers took off at a brisk pace and immediately began yelling slogans: “Blood and soil!” “You will not replace us!” “Jews will not replace us!”
 

WebSpinner

Spider's Club
Gold Member
May 7, 2003
20,520
825
113
he put down the bad people who were there, on both sides, he referred to people like me, someone who has read books on the lee family, signers of the declaration, Robert E. Lee, graduate of west point, first in his class, who served our country in several conflicts and who struggled with what to do about seceding, like most folks did and finally deciding to go with whatever his state voted to do. a man who was so revered and respected that grant did not even ask for his sidearm when he surrendered. many people, like me, who feel you do not rip up tear down the history of a man loved and held in high esteem because a city council, which did not run on this issue, votes to scrap his monument. most conservatives are not activists, don't get in the street but many people, good, people, nice people, were there to say, this is wrong. those are the people he places in the category of "good people". of course, if you buck the "narrative", you are a racist, at least to some.
 
Sep 14, 2019
180
61
28
Mr. WebSpinner, please. You know as well as anyone that he was pandering to his base, afraid to insult the red meat...all at the expense of traditional Christian values and accepted norms. I can't believe that you cannot see through this.
 

WebSpinner

Spider's Club
Gold Member
May 7, 2003
20,520
825
113
sorry, but if you are or were a republican as you claim, then you know that his base is not racists or white supremacists. know many, many, republicans and have never met, seen or smelled one of those people and they certainly are not the gop base in any way. that is what the media and dems want people to think but is not even close.
 
Sep 14, 2019
180
61
28
sorry, but if you are or were a republican as you claim, then you know that his base is not racists or white supremacists. know many, many, republicans and have never met, seen or smelled one of those people and they certainly are not the gop base in any way. that is what the media and dems want people to think but is not even close.

I still am very much a Republican. However, I am also what Trump has characterized as a "never Trumper." The lists I posted in various threads are comprised of some of the historically most ardent Republicans--leaders in the Republican party.

But on your other point, I think you are misinterpreting the criticism. No one is asserting that the typical Trump supporter is a racist, a Nazi, a White Nationalist, etc. What they are saying, which is irrefutable, is that the racists, Nazis, White Nationalists, etc. are almost all Trump supporters.

And so the question for you is -- Why is that so? Why are these racists, Nazis, White Nationalists, etc. so totally in support of Trump?
Might it be that he favors or at least countenances their position--something you and most decent people find revolting?
I think that the clear answer is yes.

And that is why I will disregard party affiliation for the first time in my adult life when I vote for anyone other than Trump come November.
 

WebSpinner

Spider's Club
Gold Member
May 7, 2003
20,520
825
113
if you look at the choices those folks have, the two parties, no way they will ever go with hollywood so they go with the gop, pretty simple and they do that if it is trump or bush or romney and none of these guys are racists at all.
 

WebSpinner

Spider's Club
Gold Member
May 7, 2003
20,520
825
113
the dems use race every 4 years and it has gotten old and not working as much and, of course, tiring. trump got about 7% of the african american vote in 2016 and numerous polls, which i really do not believe in, have him with and approval number of african americans from 17% to 34%. will approval translate to votes? probably not but if he can grab 10-15%, would be huge and finally maybe the dam will break.
 
Sep 14, 2019
180
61
28
the dems use race every 4 years and it has gotten old and not working as much and, of course, tiring. trump got about 7% of the african american vote in 2016 and numerous polls, which i really do not believe in, have him with and approval number of african americans from 17% to 34%. will approval translate to votes? probably not but if he can grab 10-15%, would be huge and finally maybe the dam will break.
 

WebSpinner

Spider's Club
Gold Member
May 7, 2003
20,520
825
113
who cares, there are many, many, never trumpers who would rather vote for a marxist than trump and these are three of them, big deal. who cares? just like 32, just keep wasting your time tearing down the president and feeling like a million dollars and good about yourself.
 
Sep 14, 2019
180
61
28
who cares, there are many, many, never trumpers who would rather vote for a marxist than trump and these are three of them, big deal. who cares? just like 32, just keep wasting your time tearing down the president and feeling like a million dollars and good about yourself.

I find it hard to believe that you genuinely consider someone a Marxist just because they choose to criticize Trump. I was taught that it's everyone's right, if not duty, to criticize those in office with whom you do not agree. There is absolutely not a shred of evidence to support your accusations about the people speaking out in the video in the above post.

With your far sweeping, denigrating, total unsupported censure of others who do not believe the same as you, do you really hope to change anyone's point of view? My goodness. What do you hope to accomplish by being so harsh and mean-spirited toward fellow citizens?...by being so sanguinary and dastardly of people not in office...people merely expressing their point of view?
 

WebSpinner

Spider's Club
Gold Member
May 7, 2003
20,520
825
113
if your choice is between trump and bernie, if you choose to vote for bernie because you don't like how trump speaks or fights, then what are you doing? come on man, you are blinded by the hate. if you vote for bernie, you are voting for a maxist, not me saying it, bernie says it. if you cannot see the light, get help, soon.
 
Sep 14, 2019
180
61
28
if your choice is between trump and bernie, if you choose to vote for bernie because you don't like how trump speaks or fights, then what are you doing? come on man, you are blinded by the hate. if you vote for bernie, you are voting for a maxist, not me saying it, bernie says it. if you cannot see the light, get help, soon.

My choice will be between Trump and Who-Ever-Runs-Against-Trump (WERAT), and would include Bernie Sanders, if by some miracle he obtained the Democratic nomination, for I am a true Never Trumper,
I surely would prefer a Kasich, a Buch, or even a Rubio, but that is not an option. However, Biden, who will almost certainly be the Democratic nominee, is an easy choice when it comes to the alternative.
Biden is a good person to assume the role of WERATer.

BTW, though I do not agree with many of Sanders' ideas, and as a Republican, I am loath to defend him, to call him a Marxist indicates to me that you lack an understanding of Democratic Socialism, Socialism, Marxism, and both governmental and economic systems in general.

Sanders is certainly not a Marxist, despite the false allegations that he “collaborated with Marxist regimes in the Soviet Union, Nicaragua and Cuba (”See article from Politico linked below), and despite his support paid sick leave, universal health care, and free higher education, not all of which are bad, and despite him being so denominated by the Alt-Right. Bernie Sanders is far less than optimum, but in a pinch, he'd do, given the alternative

No, Bernie Sanders did not collaborate with Marxist regimes

Marxism

Here's the difference between a 'socialist' and a 'democratic socialist' - Business Insider - "Democratic socialists are committed to democracy"
 

Latest posts