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A10 Game 5 - At St Bonaventure

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spider23

spider23

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Kenpom predicting a 1 point win on the road for the Spiders. Always a tough spot, hopefully no buses get stuck leaving town.

Bonnies have been very up and down. Coming off two losses, imagine they will be hungry to right the ship and get back in the W column. Hopefully we build off a pretty good road performance. Seems like a tough spot but I have no read on this one. I think it is going to come down to the last shot.
 
Common opponents is a wash...they beat Mason at home by four but lost to UNI on the road by 10.
 
Bonnies are 7-1 at home. Going to be tough to beat them, hopefully we can keep it close and have a chance to strike at the end. With that said,

Spiders - 67
Bonnies - 71
 
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Am I remembering right that the Bonnies started this year with nobody that had ever played a minute for the program? I know a bunch of their super seniors are finally gone and then they had a bunch of transfers as well.

Regardless Mark Schmidt continues to be the conference's best coach in my opinion - the fact that he has this group .500 halfway through the year is impressive. Seems like Olean is always a tough place to play with him at the helm.

My honest prediction is a close loss tomorrow. We go from a close road win Wednesday night to travelling to New York for an afternoon game against a team coming off of back to back losses. Just seems like a spot where we'd typically lose. Hope I'm wrong and we kick them while they're down and come home on a 4 game win streak.
 
gospidersgo said:
Am I remembering right that the Bonnies started this year with nobody that had ever played a minute for the program? I know a bunch of their super seniors are finally gone and then they had a bunch of transfers as well.
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Pretty much. They returned one player (Justin Ndjock-Tadjore) who had played a grand total of 30 minutes in his career. He played 9 minutes in the first game of this season and then left the team.
 
Seems like the time for a Spiders loss. Road game, Olean NY, Bonnies been good at home. I think it is a close game, but free throws haunt us.

Bonnies 71
UR - 68

Burton gets another double-double. Quinn disappears. But Roche emerges and goes 4-6 from 3.
 
gospidersgo said:
Regardless Mark Schmidt continues to be the conference's best coach in my opinion - the fact that he has this group .500 halfway through the year is impressive. Seems like Olean is always a tough place to play with him at the helm.
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What he has been able to consistently accomplish at a school of that stature and in that town is nothing short of miraculous. Can't believe some other school hasn't scooped him up over the years with an offer he can't refuse.
 
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The Bonas have three guys who are not freshmen or sophomores. They have no seniors. They have three scorers (Banks, a St. Peter's transfer; Farrell, a freshman; and Luc, a Holy Cross transfer), they are about average from three (35%, like us) and they really only play one big guy (Venning, a Morgan State transfer who is 6-10) any significant minutes. And he misses a lot of shots (only 54% on FG for the season).

Lots of reasons why we should win... Let's see if we actually do.
 
For a traditional close-to-the-basket big man, you'd like to see that number more like 60+%. I haven't watched Bona this year though, so I don't know what Venning's game is other than that he's taken one three in his career and missed it.
 
gospidersgo said:
Am I remembering right that the Bonnies started this year with nobody that had ever played a minute for the program? I know a bunch of their super seniors are finally gone and then they had a bunch of transfers as well.

Regardless Mark Schmidt continues to be the conference's best coach in my opinion - the fact that he has this group .500 halfway through the year is impressive. Seems like Olean is always a tough place to play with him at the helm.

My honest prediction is a close loss tomorrow. We go from a close road win Wednesday night to travelling to New York for an afternoon game against a team coming off of back to back losses. Just seems like a spot where we'd typically lose. Hope I'm wrong and we kick them while they're down and come home on a 4 game win streak.
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I will start this by saying I think Schmidt is a good coach and has done a real good job there. But, it is so funny hearing how our board always, and I mean always, compliments Schmidt while 99% of the time, the same people crap on Mooney:

Mooney 157-128 A-10 322-251 overall.
Schmidt 143-112 A-10 276-203 overall. Very similar as all are in the 55-57% range.

Mooney: 3 NCAAs, including 3 wins and a sweet 16.
Schmidt: 3 NCAAs, 1 win.
Mooney: 3 NIT, 7 20 win seasons.
Schmidt: 2 NIT, 5 20 win seasons.

Mooney: 10-7 with a bunch of new players this year, and gets criticized every game.
Schmidt: 8-9 with a bunch of new players and gets praised for doing a great job with a bunch of new players. It's hilarious.
 
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Eight Legger said:
The Bonas have three guys who are not freshmen or sophomores. They have no seniors. They have three scorers (Banks, a St. Peter's transfer; Farrell, a freshman; and Luc, a Holy Cross transfer), they are about average from three (35%, like us) and they really only play one big guy (Venning, a Morgan State transfer who is 6-10) any significant minutes. And he misses a lot of shots (only 54% on FG for the season).

Lots of reasons why we should win... Let's see if we actually do.
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This is where EL says they are terrible and we should win. Like Clemson (6-0 in the ACC) and pretty much every other team we play.
 
VT4700 said:
I will start this by saying I think Schmidt is a good coach and has done a real good job there. But, it is so funny hearing how our board always, and I mean always, compliments Schmidt while 99% of the time, the same people crap on Mooney:

Mooney 157-128 A-10 322-251 overall.
Schmidt 143-112 A-10 276-203 overall. Very similar as all are in the 55-57% range.

Mooney: 3 NCAAs, including 3 wins and a sweet 16.
Schmidt: 3 NCAAs, 0 wins.
Mooney: 3 NIT, 7 20 win seasons.
Schmidt: 2 NIT, 5 20 win seasons.

Mooney: 10-7 with a bunch of new players this year, and gets criticized every game.
Schmidt: 8-9 with a bunch of new players and gets praised for doing a great job with a bunch of new players. It's hilarious.
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If you can't see the difference in recruiting kids to come to Olean vs. to Richmond then I can't help you.

Out of curiosity who would you say is the best coach in the conference?
 
Also, I was giving their coach a compliment, you're the one who brought Mooney into it. I think I'm typically very fair with my criticism vs. praise of Mooney.
 
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Venning is not that far off. But I believe he is 55.1% from 2 this season, while 56% is 460th among players with the minimum participation. Grant was in the top 460 four of his five qualifying seasons.
 
gospidersgo said:
If you can't see the difference in recruiting kids to come to Olean vs. to Richmond then I can't help you.

Out of curiosity who would you say is the best coach in the conference?
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So, if you are recruiting what would you say is the difference in Olean and Richmond? How would you go that route if you are trying to sell a guy on Richmond over St Bona? You think that is an easy, slam dunk sell? "Olean sucks, why go there?" Seriously? Most kids are worried about style of play and how they fit. Basketball is their life for a lot of guys, and I don't think location is a problem for Schmidt. If it were, he would never get anyone there.

Best coach? I think we have a few real good ones in the A-10, Mooney and Schmidt included. If I had to name a best, I would have to give it some thought.
 
SFspidur said:
For a traditional close-to-the-basket big man, you'd like to see that number more like 60+%. I haven't watched Bona this year though, so I don't know what Venning's game is other than that he's taken one three in his career and missed it.
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Yep, this was my point. He's 6'10", so I assume he's not taking a lot of mid-range jumpers. I imagine (but could be wrong) that his game is similar to Quinn's. I feel like Quinn has missed a fair number of bunnies this year, but he is still shooting about 63%.
 
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VT4700 said:
Yep, that was a strange comment. Grant was 51% for his career (54.8 from 2) and scored over 2200 points.
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Not a strange comment at all. Grant's game involved a lot of longer-distance shooting, so of course his percentage was going to be lower. This guy has taken one three all year. I assume he is mostly taking shots very close to the rim, in which case missing almost half of them isn't great.
 
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VT4700 said:
This is where EL says they are terrible and we should win. Like Clemson (6-0 in the ACC) and pretty much every other team we play.
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:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
There's literally no one on Bona who played one minute for them last year AND most of their team is freshmen and sophomores! And they have no one who seems to do anything at a crazy high level.

So if on one hand we have to hear people within our own fanbase downplaying our expectations this year because we lost so many veteran players (meanwhile, we returned the possible POY, two fifth-year seniors and three upper-classmen transfers with a ton of experience), then shouldn't the expectation be that this group of vagabonds Schmidt put together at the 11th hour is very beatable? Can't have it both ways here.

When we played Clemson, we should have expected to beat them. The fact they've started 6-0 in the ACC is either credit to them getting a lot better than they were in the first half of the season or the ACC not being as good as what people expected.
 
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VT4700 said:
Basketball is their life for a lot of guys, and I don't think location is a problem for Schmidt. If it were, he would never get anyone there.
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You cant be serious. It's much harder to recruit to Olean than Richmond. We have better weather, a larger metropolitan area, an airport 20 mins away, better facilities, are a better academic school, and more money. It's much easier to recruit to Richmond than Olean. Bonnie is one of the hardest D1 schools to recruit to. Schmidt is a hell of a coach because he is able to overcome being at a school like Bonnie. Come on.
 
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Eight Legger said:
Not a strange comment at all. Grant's game involved a lot of longer-distance shooting, so of course his percentage was going to be lower. This guy has taken one three all year. I assume he is mostly taking shots very close to the rim, in which case missing almost half of them isn't great.
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Grant shot 54.8% from 2 for his career. this guy shoots the same percentage from 2 as Grant. and Grant was a great offensive big man.
if you're saying "yeah, but he took longer 2 point shots" ... then don't take longer 2 point shots.
 
Schmidt will have them ready and Olean is a tough place to win, but I think there is little doubt who is the more talented and experienced team here and who has the best player on the court and that would be us. This is a game that if we want to be a Top 4 seed, we need to win.

Davidson was a really nice road W, but lets be honest, we always win at Davidson. If this team wants to make a statement they are going to have to start winning games, where we have don't it recently. A young inexperienced St. Bonnie team would send that message.
 
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spiderman said:
Grant shot 54.8% from 2 for his career. this guy shoots the same percentage from 2 as Grant. and Grant was a great offensive big man.
if you're saying "yeah, but he took longer 2 point shots" ... then don't take longer 2 point shots.
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Grant took a lot of shots that a conventional big man doesn't take and even his shots right around the rim were typically of the more difficult variety because he played a different type of big man game. Quinn is more like a traditional big man, most of his shots are right at around the rim, hence the higher percentage he is shooting.

Now, having made that argument, I have no idea what this guy's game looks like, maybe he is taking more shots like Grant did, in which case 55% from 2 is pretty damn good, if he shooting 55% and his shot selection is more like Quinn's that is less impressive.
 
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97spiderfan said:
Grant took a lot of shots that a conventional big man doesn't take and even his shots right around the rim were typically of the more difficult variety because he played a different type of big man game. Quinn is more like a traditional big man, most of his shots are right at around the rim, hence the higher percentage he is shooting.

Now, having made that argument, I have no idea what this guy's game looks like, maybe he is taking more shots like Grant did, in which case 55% from 2 is pretty damn good, if he shooting 55% and his shot selection is more like Quinn's that is less impressive.
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Yep, this is my point too. Well said.
 
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97spiderfan said:
Grant took a lot of shots that a conventional big man doesn't take and even his shots right around the rim were typically of the more difficult variety because he played a different type of big man game. Quinn is more like a traditional big man, most of his shots are right at around the rim, hence the higher percentage he is shooting.

Now, having made that argument, I have no idea what this guy's game looks like, maybe he is taking more shots like Grant did, in which case 55% from 2 is pretty damn good, if he shooting 55% and his shot selection is more like Quinn's that is less impressive.
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Well, he did shoot 10 of 11 at SLU 6 days ago...
 
spiderman said:
Grant shot 54.8% from 2 for his career. this guy shoots the same percentage from 2 as Grant. and Grant was a great offensive big man.
if you're saying "yeah, but he took longer 2 point shots" ... then don't take longer 2 point shots.
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And, did Grant really take longer 2 point shots???
 
Ride Burton and let his game open up everything else.

If feeding Quinn, try to get him the ball 2 feet above the block - as last game and others have evidenced, it gives him more room for his favorite spin move and he won't get caught under the basket as much.

Make 3s.
 
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97spiderfan said:
Grant took a lot of shots that a conventional big man doesn't take and even his shots right around the rim were typically of the more difficult variety because he played a different type of big man game. Quinn is more like a traditional big man, most of his shots are right at around the rim, hence the higher percentage he is shooting.

Now, having made that argument, I have no idea what this guy's game looks like, maybe he is taking more shots like Grant did, in which case 55% from 2 is pretty damn good, if he shooting 55% and his shot selection is more like Quinn's that is less impressive.
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I've just never heard someone shooting 54% as a negative. Nate was 55% for his career. Does EL have issues with that too? This is just EL being EL, and saying all of opponents suck and all of their players suck. Venning is averaging 11.4 points a game, 5.8 rebounds a game, and 1.4 blocks a game. So, yes, it seems a little strange to look at that and say "he only shoots 54% from the field" until you consider the source.
 
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