A couple other Toledo observations

97spiderfan

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1. Sherod gets gassed easily. You could plainly him winded several times during the game. I'm sure his conditioning is not back quite yet. Mooney needs to recognize this and sub Sherod out.
2. So who made the big crunch time plays at the end of the game. Gilly did. Any coincidence that Mooney gets him rest during the game and then he came up big at the end??? I don't think so.
3. This was discussed in the game thread, but Crabtree needs to get more time. He is just plain solid out there. I think there is a case to be made that we actually start him at the 3, move Burton to the 4 and bring Cayo off the bench.
4. I've been giving Grace a little love this year but my god he was bad out there on Saturday. They just flat abused him on defense.
5. Sal is completely lost. Sad, I like Sal, but dude is in his own head right now.

That second half was a lot of fun, probably the loudest the Robins Center has been in a while. And it was such a fitting end to have Gilly make the plays he did in crunch time. So, huge kudos to this team for coming back.

Now on the flip side, the first half was an abomination. We came out not ready to play. I just don't understand this team, they are a bunch of 5th and 6th year guys and yet for some reason they can't get themselves mentally ready to go for all 40 minutes. Just flatly unacceptable.
 

SFspidur

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Crabtree has been impressive. I was always a little skeptical given that his solid rookie year came on an atrocious Tulane squad and then with the injuries he's had during his time here, but he's proving to be a valuable piece. Good size, good instincts, seems to move pretty well on defense. 10 assists with only 1 turnover, three-point shot is starting to fall, grabbing some key rebounds. Lots to like with him.
 

Eight Legger

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Yeah he's playing like a middle-class man's Tyler Burton and presents some of the same challenges for defenses. Play him more.
 

SouthJerseySpiderFan

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1) I think Nick is fine. I believe he's only getting around 15 or so minutes. You need his points in that limited time. Might need to play him those minutes into better shape and if more points scored than given up by his defense than a plus.

2) No doubt Gilly getting a couple minutes break is necessary for like you stated maximum crunch time play. Forget his quickness his anticipation of what will happen is psychic-like.

3) Was afraid of Crabtree's injuries being a halt to a good career but those stats don't lie at Tulane especially against plenty of good competition.

4) Grace has performed way better than I ever anticipated. I though this guy was a late practice body recruit to fill the roster and might never see the time of day. That said I like maybe a little less of him taking that 3PT shot any time he wants to especially early in the shot clock.

5) Poor Sal. The opposite of Grace thinking he could be a major contributor for Mooney. I guess those profile stars from HS weren't accurate for him.
 

MrTbone

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There were times end of last year where Sal got some decent minutes and he seemed to play more naturally. It seems pretty evident that his limited minutes come with a certain stiffness and inability to get into the flow of the game. I don't know if that would get solved by more minutes, it might or might not.

I love Nate but his game just seems very off. He's shooting 50% from the field which is tolerable but the worst since his freshman year. His FT shooting form is just god awful, I don't know what's happened there. Crabtree might be a better option given his defense and three point threat are way better, although I think that hampers our interior offense and defense because that's not quite what Tyler does.
 
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97spiderfan

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Crabtree might be a better option given his defense and three point threat are way better, although I think that hampers our interior offense and defense because that's not quite what Tyler does.
Interesting point. Tyler is not a good perimeter defender. He gets beat quite a bit. It might actually help our defense for him to start guarding 4's. He is certainly big and strong enough too and might put him in a better defensive positions more often that play to his strengths.
 

Eight Legger

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Problem with Cayo is the same problem we tend to have with most of our 4s -- they don't have jump shots, so they either are able to get close enough to the basket to dump in points that way, or they aren't. Cayo at times can be aggressive and finish at the hoop, but this year he's left a lot of points on the floor because he hasn't been finishing. We went through this with Terry Allen, too, though he was better than Cayo overall.

Most of our bigs do not have quick moves when they try to back defenders down, which sometimes/often allows the defense to collapse on them before they can get going or make a good pass to someone who's open. The result then is a turnover, an awkward looking post move and (usually in those cases) a miss.
 

MrTbone

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Interesting point. Tyler is not a good perimeter defender. He gets beat quite a bit. It might actually help our defense for him to start guarding 4's. He is certainly big and strong enough too and might put him in a better defensive positions more often that play to his strengths.
Seems very possible. I don't think he's a poor defender, but he's not killing it on the perimeter, I think Crabtree is a bit better in that regard. So maybe moving Tyler inside ends up as a net positive defensively so long as he doesn't get pushed around.

I'm still pulling for Dji at 2, really looks like the most natural guy to get to the rim that also brings good speed/length on D.
 

CH_Spider

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I've loved having Nick come off the bench. He's starting to find his stroke, which will be huge come conference play. Sucks that Bailey is hurt (hope it isn't too serious). Connor definitely needs some more time and I'd like to see less Sal. Grant needs to recognize mismatches in the paint. I feel that he could've had a big game down low had he taken it to Toledo.
 

spiderman

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to me, Tyler's defense has dramatically improved of late. he still loses sight of his man sometimes, but one on one he's a pretty tough defender now. he's working hard.

I also want to credit Nick. someone posted that he gets gassed and I agree, but it's because he's really working on the defensive end. he's not naturally quick laterally and the knees don't help, but he's doing a pretty good job.

Cayo's defense on his man is solid. his problem has always been over-helping. haven't noticed it as much recently.

the last few games, when we have defensive breakdowns is usually seems more of a communication problem than physical problems. I think that's a good thing as it's more correctable.
 

spiderman

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I still say our Jekyll and Hyde team issue ismore an offensive than defensive.

we look like crap when we miss shots. when we're 4-17 from 3 (and also 4-17 from 2) for a half, we clearly look terrible.
when we shoot 9-15 from 3, everything is aces and we look like we can beat anybody.

problem is we can't count on hot shooting all the time. we're going to have runs. sometimes hot, sometimes cold. it's going to be exciting and frustrating. that's today's game with it's dependance on the 3 pointer.
 

gcarter52

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I still say our Jekyll and Hyde team issue ismore an offensive than defensive.

we look like crap when we miss shots. when we're 4-17 from 3 (and also 4-17 from 2) for a half, we clearly look terrible.
when we shoot 9-15 from 3, everything is aces and we look like we can beat anybody.

problem is we can't count on hot shooting all the time. we're going to have runs. sometimes hot, sometimes cold. it's going to be exciting and frustrating. that's today's game with it's dependance on the 3 pointer.
That will come with time and experience, Remember we have only played 10 games, hopefu by the time we get to ou IC games we will see a difference.
 

KE Spider

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I still say our Jekyll and Hyde team issue ismore an offensive than defensive.

we look like crap when we miss shots. when we're 4-17 from 3 (and also 4-17 from 2) for a half, we clearly look terrible.
when we shoot 9-15 from 3, everything is aces and we look like we can beat anybody.

problem is we can't count on hot shooting all the time. we're going to have runs. sometimes hot, sometimes cold. it's going to be exciting and frustrating. that's today's game with it's dependance on the 3 pointer.
If defense is sound, should be in game even when off offensively.

Defense should have been the off season emphasis. We knew we could score.
 
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I don't necessarily disagree with KE Spider, but do want to point out that there was some discussion before the season as to how we would replace Blake's points.
 

SpiderK

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Problem with Cayo is the same problem we tend to have with most of our 4s -- they don't have jump shots, so they either are able to get close enough to the basket to dump in points that way, or they aren't. Cayo at times can be aggressive and finish at the hoop, but this year he's left a lot of points on the floor because he hasn't been finishing. We went through this with Terry Allen, too, though he was better than Cayo overall.

Most of our bigs do not have quick moves when they try to back defenders down, which sometimes/often allows the defense to collapse on them before they can get going or make a good pass to someone who's open. The result then is a turnover, an awkward looking post move and (usually in those cases) a miss.
Our guys just don’t know where the basket is when they are inside. That includes Cato, Grant, Grace, and Sal. They get lost down there and can’t find the square. They pray for a foul and then can’t make the free throws. They all four suck at the line. I would foul all 4 when they touched the ball.
 

SpiderK

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By the way, Mooney’s excuse for Toledo running off the court at the end of the game was BS. No Toledo player knew they weren’t shaking hands until the HC pushed them and shouted for them to leave under the basket. I was sitting a few feet away from them at mid court and saw it all. The HC was pissed that Jacob stole the ball from his star in front of their bench and pointed to the banner. He also may have been jawing a little to the bench. 😁
 

Spider2020

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Interesting point. Tyler is not a good perimeter defender. He gets beat quite a bit. It might actually help our defense for him to start guarding 4's. He is certainly big and strong enough too and might put him in a better defensive positions more often that play to his strengths.
Burton defending the 4 also would likely get him in better position for defensive rebounds. Cayo is not a great rebounder so I think this could really help
 
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Spider2020

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By the way, Mooney’s excuse for Toledo running off the court at the end of the game was BS. No Toledo player knew they weren’t shaking hands until the HC pushed them and shouted for them to leave under the basket. I was sitting a few feet away from them at mid court and saw it all. The HC was pissed that Jacob stole the ball from his star in front of their bench and pointed to the banner. He also may have been jawing a little to the bench. 😁
What was his excuse for the handshake situation?
 

spider23

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By the way, Mooney’s excuse for Toledo running off the court at the end of the game was BS. No Toledo player knew they weren’t shaking hands until the HC pushed them and shouted for them to leave under the basket. I was sitting a few feet away from them at mid court and saw it all. The HC was pissed that Jacob stole the ball from his star in front of their bench and pointed to the banner. He also may have been jawing a little to the bench. 😁
I did notice in the highlights it appeared that Jacob seemed to point and jaw at the bench. All sounds like heat of the moment stuff. I'm sure he probably got some trash talk first. Sounds like the Toledo coach may have over reacted.
 
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Eight Legger

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Mooney said it was a preconceived covid thing and Toledo didn’t communicate it well. 🙄
Lol. Ok. So they don't shake hands with anyone? They must be the only team in the country like that. I don't know why Mooney would cover up for them.
 

SFspidur

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I just looked back at the Toledo-Bradley video, and I don’t think the teams shook hands there either. I think the head coaches did, but not the players.
 
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SpiderK

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Lol. Ok. So they don't shake hands with anyone? They must be the only team in the country like that. I don't know why Mooney would cover up for them.
Even Mooney was tongue in cheek when giving the excuse, Mooney also made fun of them for this excuse after the players were laying all over each other for 40 minutes during the game and then not shaking hands to prevent covid.
 

97spiderfan

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By the way, Mooney’s excuse for Toledo running off the court at the end of the game was BS. No Toledo player knew they weren’t shaking hands until the HC pushed them and shouted for them to leave under the basket. I was sitting a few feet away from them at mid court and saw it all. The HC was pissed that Jacob stole the ball from his star in front of their bench and pointed to the banner. He also may have been jawing a little to the bench. 😁
Good for Jacob. All for a little smack talk if you game backs it up. Jacob backed it up on Saturday.
 

MrTbone

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I still say our Jekyll and Hyde team issue ismore an offensive than defensive.

we look like crap when we miss shots. when we're 4-17 from 3 (and also 4-17 from 2) for a half, we clearly look terrible.
when we shoot 9-15 from 3, everything is aces and we look like we can beat anybody.

problem is we can't count on hot shooting all the time. we're going to have runs. sometimes hot, sometimes cold. it's going to be exciting and frustrating. that's today's game with it's dependance on the 3 pointer.
I can live with the periodic game where we go 4-17 from 3. We can't ever go 4-17 from 2, and we also can't get in the habit of reverting to just bombing 17 3pt attempts because we aren't scoring inside.

That inside game has to be a focus and commitment for the team to weather outside shooting woes.
 

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