8-23
- Thread starter spider23
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Good to get that first road win and especially on a night when Tyler couldn't really get it going offensively. Especially nice job defensively - we held the 1-2 punch of Loyer and Mennenga well below their averages and we forced them into taking a ton of 3's (when they are clearly not a good 3 point shooting team).
Overall it was a little ugly but a win is a win and we are tied for 2rd in the conference which is nice.
But can we please please please have a different end of half/end of game offensive strategy. I know nothing is likely to change, but it pains me how rarely our end of half strategy works. I just expect if we have the ball with no shot clock at the end of the half that there's a decent chance we don't even take a shot, and if we do get a shot off it's rushed or poor shot selection.
Overall it was a little ugly but a win is a win and we are tied for 2rd in the conference which is nice.
But can we please please please have a different end of half/end of game offensive strategy. I know nothing is likely to change, but it pains me how rarely our end of half strategy works. I just expect if we have the ball with no shot clock at the end of the half that there's a decent chance we don't even take a shot, and if we do get a shot off it's rushed or poor shot selection.
Nice road W. Same end of game issues but TB made the free-throws when he had to. NQ needed to be in the low post more. Thought he looked pretty good on the block and could have scored at will over Manenga. Still want for him to look for his shot first, pass second. Solid A10 start at 3-1. By the way, the goal should be to WIN the A10 regular season crown, not just finish top 4. Top 4 is fine, but we are 1 game out of 1st. Let's go win the league!
3:31 left missed 3. Think Quinn was guarding Menenga which is a tough ask on perimeter. Then 2:58 Goose bucket. To put up us 9. Last fg of game & then went 2-6 FTs. Davidson smartly fouled Quinn as soon as he touched it. Him & goose missed front end 1 & 1. Goose visibly upset after, I only raise bc he is the least emotionally demonstrative UR player on court imo. So noticeable. Bigs & Burton each went 1 for 2. Before Burton made 2 at end. The above mentioned sequence gave us just enough cushion.
Yep. But I’d rather be up 9 w under 3, really under 2 as we got a stop next D possession & ran our O next one. Then up 15 with 9+. Tho both u expect to close.
Not the prettiest game, but a road win, ugly or pretty is a road win. Davidson obviously is not very good this year. But I don't expect them to fall far in the A10, and similar to us - they will have a lot of pieces returning next year. I could see them finishing 5-7th this year in A10, maybe around .500 in the league
My take is that the matchup zone is always preferred conceptually. It's just that this year, we have matched those concepts with actually well-taught fundamentals from David Boyden (it was mentioned on a broadcast that he took over defense as his baby). We hedge screens better, we definitely rotate far better, we have good help side defense, we try and take away the ballhandler's stronger hand, etc. It's way, way, way better fundamentals this year.
Also, it looks like we try not to switch everything like we used to -- for example, we're not really switching Nelson onto whomever Quinn or Grace is guarding. But our perimeter guys do seem to switch fairly liberally.
Ply -- I'm very glad you were right and I was wrong.
Although I like to think my $5 money line bet on Davidson had something to do with our success...
8legs1dream
Team Manager
got a little dicey at the end but won't complain about a road victory, especially a conference road victory!
yeah, it's not the matchup we used to play. I think it's really just a man defense, but not a straight man like some coaches run. we switch pretty much all perimeter screens. we hedge really well for a change. we communicate better than we have in the past.
I agree in thinking Boyton is a very good addition.
if we didn't step out of bounds a half dozen times and shot better from the line we win easily. Nelson shooting well from 3 gives hope for an exciting future.
I agree.
I was just looking at the run. From 9:20-0:25, I think we had 1 FG (Goose) and went 5 of 10 from the line (including 2 misses that were 1&1).
We’ve seen this pattern too many times. We are definitely a team of patterns. Sometimes patterns end up being overcome, and sometimes they bite you.
If you had been told before the game that Burton would not make a 3, and we shot 58% from line, most would say "L". But-the D turned the L into a W, which is the object of the game.
@97 since you claimed Goose was not elite defender, he shut down Bishop (second half, only 7 points, none vs. Goose), Grant (3 points) and your A10 leader for POY Loyer, 7 points. 17 points for the leading scorer of the last 3 teams we played in 2.5 games.
@97 since you claimed Goose was not elite defender, he shut down Bishop (second half, only 7 points, none vs. Goose), Grant (3 points) and your A10 leader for POY Loyer, 7 points. 17 points for the leading scorer of the last 3 teams we played in 2.5 games.
I loved seeing Goose take his man off the dribble and get the easy two. They were basically begging us to do so. Will gladly take layups. Alas, we seemed to revert to play not to lose, milk the clock. Not saying we should not be using as much clock as possible, but instruction should be to attack when opportunity is there. Especially egregious we had one possession in there where I don't think we had one pass in the last 20 seconds of the clock, Jaynel dribbled and then took long 3. Not really a knock on Jaynel, he played a great game, just don't like the offense the last 3 minutes. Got the win and that is what counts, but Davidson did not impress me, as I kept saying pre-season, I did not understand the hype and universally seemed to be ranked above us, at least by most.
Damn, Goose shut down 3 players all by himself, that is really impressive, I might say truly elite. Lol, of course he didn't. But yes, Goose had another nice game and played some really good defense. I'll leave the status of his defense to others, but yes will acknowledge he has been playing some really good defense. Happy to admit when I am wrong, but he did have some games early on when he made some key defensive mistakes at the worst time, so felt that was warranted at the time.
Looking at the game in its entirety, I think probably one of our best 40 minute performances of the year. The game was close at the end only because we didn't hit our FT's. While I normally disagree with Mooney's taking the air out of the ball with a lead at the end, I think it was the right call with this situation.
Other observation was Quinn owned Mennenga. Mennenga could not figure out how to deal with Quinn's length. He would back him down but then couldn't shoot over him, thought he was visibly frustrated. He had much more success against Grace. I was disappointed that Mooney had Quinn up at the top of the key and around the 3 point line on offense towards the end of the game. That took away one of our biggest mismatches in the game.
Also great game by Nelson. Kept the turnovers low, got hot from 3. Also some amazing smack talk, I like that edge.
I like an edge, but I definitely held my breath as he stared down the Davidson bench after a first-half three and the gesture after the and-1 foul. Really thought he might get T'd up for one of those.
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Yeah, I agree. I also thought that would fire Davidson and particularly Loyer up, which fortunately it didn't. Got to keep that in check for sure, but I do like players that play a little cocky as long as they can back it up.
This was a real good win. We played really well except for turnovers and FTs. Our 3 point shooting was huge in the 1st half. We were off from 3 in the 2nd half, but they were giving us wide open looks, so I had no issues with us shooting as many as we did in the 2nd half. Nelson getting hot in the 1st half was awesome, and showed what he is capable of doing from 3. He is a scorer, can score driving and from 3, and we need his scoring. Mooney even mentioned post game the importance of a scoring PG for us.
Goose was Goose again defensively. Outstanding performance. Nelson mentioned how well Goose played defensively post game, and mentioned the game plan. These guys are really buying in defensively, and Boyden is a big reason why. No doubt he has been a great addition to the coaching staff.
Bigelow is a huge factor on the boards. Elsewhere too because he is so versatile, but his defensively rebounding in traffic has been off the charts good.
I thought everyone did a good job on Mennenga. It started with Quinn, who was able to frustrate him a little, and at other times I saw Grace, Tyler, and Bigelow around to bother him. He is big dude, a good player, and we held him to 4-16. Overall, Loyer and Mennenga went 7-27 and 1-10 from 3.
Tyler is so good. He is just so good. Missed his 3s, but did not force a lot out there, and gave us 17, 12, and 5 steals, playing all 40 minutes again.
Goose was Goose again defensively. Outstanding performance. Nelson mentioned how well Goose played defensively post game, and mentioned the game plan. These guys are really buying in defensively, and Boyden is a big reason why. No doubt he has been a great addition to the coaching staff.
Bigelow is a huge factor on the boards. Elsewhere too because he is so versatile, but his defensively rebounding in traffic has been off the charts good.
I thought everyone did a good job on Mennenga. It started with Quinn, who was able to frustrate him a little, and at other times I saw Grace, Tyler, and Bigelow around to bother him. He is big dude, a good player, and we held him to 4-16. Overall, Loyer and Mennenga went 7-27 and 1-10 from 3.
Tyler is so good. He is just so good. Missed his 3s, but did not force a lot out there, and gave us 17, 12, and 5 steals, playing all 40 minutes again.
Have not seen as much of the games as I would like lately, but glad to hear the influence of Boyden on the defense has been persisting. Loved what i have seen in some of the games. I really think that has been missing in past years (strategically and toughness mentally) and Boyden seems to be really helping. Love Bigelow's effort too, great block near the end of the game. He is has the tools to play D and uses them.
4 for 4 u could count Bailey w goo moos, but should have switched him to guarding Polite. And it's not all Goose he doesn't get all credit but he does get the heaviest load. unless its some great big guy inside which is not common. But none is new for Goose, has gone on for years. He just makes it hard on u. But unfairly probably won't get all A10 d consideration bc they look at steals & blocks. Underappreciated what he does. Not by all, but heck even a decent percentage here wouldn't have him as clear DPOY on own UR team, that we even had guys off bench equal. Crazy takes. Maybe it's bc he's a Euro from Finland or looks like he's out of a J Crew catalog. And yet he likely gets lit up a few games, & then it will be right back to hearing how Goose isn't lockdown. when u face really good players and get the tough assignments its bound to happen, and u hope your teammates step up vs others when it does, just like vice versa Goose needs to chip in on O.
As long as you keep making winning game threads you’re good with me
Almost as good as the Goo Moo game where John Feinstein kept talking about Grace transferring from the Citadel. To his credit he corrected himself toward the end of the game. These Davidson announcers never did catch on that Nelson wasn't Goose ................Good for head shaking and laughing purposes..................
Boyden is a great asset. He gets into it and does a terrific job instructing the players. As a result our defensive pressure and effectiveness has greatly improved. And fwiw he has a terrific family that is very supportive of Spider hoops.
The way he denies the ball to his guy is as key as anything, and that will never be credited in a box score.
How about Randolph last night? We were down 6-0, he comes in and gets a bucket and then a 3 in about 3 minutes as part of a 13-0 run that put us ahead 13-6. He came in and made an impact right away, and pretty much turned the game around for us. All in his first 3 minutes of playing time.
What?? One basket in the last 9 minutes and we couldn't shoot free throws? I'm in New Zealand and couldn't see the game, but Davidson must be awful...
I feel like this is the best defensive team of the Mooney era. even better than the sweet 16 team. not sure where to check that.
Boyden has to have a hand in it. but I also think some of it's the athletes we're recruiting. Goose is defense first. we don't have a rim protector but both bigs are solid defensively in different ways. Burton took heat for his defense, but he's outstanding on that end now. plus he and Bigelow on the boards is a huge factor. when's the last time we had a pair of forwards who rebound like those 2? when's the last time we even had 1?
Definitely one of the best. Kenpom has us at 64 in defensive efficiency right now. The 2010 team was 35, 2011 was 54, and 2020 was 54. So, this team compares defensively to teams that won 26, 29, and 24 games.
Yes the defense as a whole has done well this season. Though what I see remarkably is the defensive rebounding is ranked 36 in the nation. Started better a few seasons back but nothing like this. After so many consecutive years of ranked mid to high 200s/low 300s Mooney finally did something. Not hard to figure out if don't give the opponent 5/10 extra shots at the basket your chances of winning improves.
Mooney's first 12 years averaged rank 277. Last five before this season 172. A lost art of the game that is so easy to teach. Especially to teams like UR that don't have players with one eye to the next level a year or two down the road.
And another pet peeve of mine is wasted scoring opportunities with too many TOs. Though I didn't count Mooney's first three seasons giving him the benefit of the doubt the last 14 years years Spiders average rank in least amount of TOs comes in at 30. I give credit to Mooney for remarkable job he's done with this phase of the game.
All in all a few careless TOs along with poor end of game FT shooting but got deserved Davidson win. That is all that counts. Perfect b-ball isn't needed IMO to at least get a bye for the A10 tourney this year. It's a very down year and unlike last season probability of winning the conference tourney I think is better. Mooney and everyone that attends UR are smart. Just play SMART B-BALL, that's all I ask for.
Mooney's first 12 years averaged rank 277. Last five before this season 172. A lost art of the game that is so easy to teach. Especially to teams like UR that don't have players with one eye to the next level a year or two down the road.
And another pet peeve of mine is wasted scoring opportunities with too many TOs. Though I didn't count Mooney's first three seasons giving him the benefit of the doubt the last 14 years years Spiders average rank in least amount of TOs comes in at 30. I give credit to Mooney for remarkable job he's done with this phase of the game.
All in all a few careless TOs along with poor end of game FT shooting but got deserved Davidson win. That is all that counts. Perfect b-ball isn't needed IMO to at least get a bye for the A10 tourney this year. It's a very down year and unlike last season probability of winning the conference tourney I think is better. Mooney and everyone that attends UR are smart. Just play SMART B-BALL, that's all I ask for.
you can marginally improve rebounding with teaching, but really it's recruited.
Burton and Bigelow aren't tremendous rebounders because of boxing out technique. they're long, strong and athletic. and they want it.
we need to always recruit guys like that.
Yes. Our defense looks really good because we finish the last part of defense, we rebound the missed shot. Burton is an absolute beast on the defensive glass, and yes some of it is technique, desire, but a big part is athleticism. Bigelow is also awesome on the defensive glass.
Frankly, I still see our defense giving up a lot of wide open looks as it has in past year, we still have our fair share of flying dutchman. The difference to me this year is that teams are only getting 1 shot per possession, not 2 or 3, as they have in past years because of guys like Burton and Bigelow being beasts on the boards.
Quinn also makes a difference down low on defense as he is so tough to shoot over in the paint.. That is a huge difference from Grant being down low last year, acting as a swinging gate on far too many possessions. Grant gave us way more on the offensive end than Quinn does, but Quinn is giving is better defense.
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