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3-year extension for Mooney

Expected this to occur … my old posts in late Feb after the away VCU mess show I was at my end as most of us were … but March thankfully happened and like our off-season so full focus for me is on excitement building for next season
 
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Why not just go ahead and make him Coach for Life and we can quit with this stupid debate. Mooney's reward should have been just keeping his job. Period.
 
To me, some sort of announcement of this type was expected. I have been a big basher over the last 5-7 years. I do think if he can continue to recruit well and work the transfer portal reasonably well - he can win. The down years we have had very flawed rosters, with very little to no depth or competition. I think this year will be a challenge in putting the transfers, newcomers and red shirts together and making it work. I do agree with 4700, point guard play will be critical. I am optomistic about both Nelson and Dji - they just have to do it on the court in games.
 
it remains a cop out that we don’t announce contract details.

Nothing against Moon bc he should push for all he can get but I just don’t see the advantages to UR. These contracts r 1 sided to coaches just wish the school admins would smarten up some. & they wonder how college athletics turned into pay for play...well a lot of it was the exhorbitant contracts given out to coaches. There is risk reward in any contract but tilted so much to risk. It’s different for sitting head coach vs. when u have a vacancy. With freedom of movement for players the coaches have lost the job security for recruiting angle.

22 years for 3 bids seems disproportionate to me. hope it will be more than 3 of course starting w 22-23. Go Spiders.
 
Who cares what Mooney gets paid, just jack up the student’s tuition, fees and housing by 8.6% to pay for it.
 
it remains a cop out that we don’t announce contract details.

Nothing against Moon bc he should push for all he can get but I just don’t see the advantages to UR. These contracts r 1 sided to coaches just wish the school admins would smarten up some. & they wonder how college athletics turned into pay for play...well a lot of it was the exhorbitant contracts given out to coaches. There is risk reward in any contract but tilted so much to risk. It’s different for sitting head coach vs. when u have a vacancy. With freedom of movement for players the coaches have lost the job security for recruiting angle.

22 years for 3 bids seems disproportionate to me. hope it will be more than 3 of course starting w 22-23. Go Spiders.
I agree - I think UR should provide some of the details of the contract, not all. I think items like total compensation each year and potential bonuses would be easy to disclose and I don't see a negative in doing so. I would like to know if there is any buyout clauses if fired - but I can understand not disclosing that piece.

I thought Mooney should have been fired after the two terrible losing seasons, but then when they stuck with him and COVID hit - it became difficult. And once he won the A10 tourney and won a game in the NCAA tourney - we HAD to extend him and I have no issue with it. For me personally - the program has the following goals.

1) Make the NCAA tourney
2) Win the A10 tourney
3) Win the A10 regular Season
4) Beat VCU

And this past season he made the NCAA tourney and won a game, won the A10 tourney, and while we were 1-2 vs VCU, he did beat them when it mattered the most - in the A10 tourney. So you have to reward someone when they make the NCAA AND win a game and WIN the A10 tourney - no only to reward him currently for reaching those goals, but also show your investment in the program for future coaches. I have no issue with this extension , think the length is just right and we will see what happens after next season.
 
I am sure VCU is happy he is back - but honestly - I am okay with losing to VCU as long as we make the NCAA tourney more consistently. The only time losing to your rival comes into play in these situations in when you don't achieve your first 2 goals - Make NCAA tourney or win A10 (tourney or regular season) - if you don't do those - then that is where the rival record becomes an issue. Win the A10 or make NCAA's consistently - and guess what, no one really mentions the rival record.

Imagine if we had a winning record vs. VCU the past 10 years, but still had same post-season results. You think VCU would care? Probably not. They would hang their hat on the fact they made the NCAA almost every year while we didn't make any. That is the bigger goal.
 
I am sure VCU is happy he is back - but honestly - I am okay with losing to VCU as long as we make the NCAA tourney more consistently. The only time losing to your rival comes into play in these situations in when you don't achieve your first 2 goals - Make NCAA tourney or win A10 (tourney or regular season) - if you don't do those - then that is where the rival record becomes an issue. Win the A10 or make NCAA's consistently - and guess what, no one really mentions the rival record.

Imagine if we had a winning record vs. VCU the past 10 years, but still had same post-season results. You think VCU would care? Probably not. They would hang their hat on the fact they made the NCAA almost every year while we didn't make any. That is the bigger goal.
Who really gives a crap about what VCU thinks?
 
Who really gives a crap about what VCU thinks?
We care about VCU when we lose to them and when they make the tourney and we don't - which they have done consistently the last 10+ years -but maybe, just maybe - times are changing.
 
Let's all remember:

* We eliminated vcu from the a10 tournament in their first game.

* We won the a10 while they watched from home.

* We are the reason they didn't make the NCAAs.

* We did make the NCAAs.

* We won a game in the NCAAs, which they haven't done in six years.
What is better though - making the tourney 1 time in the last 6 years and winning a game or making it 4 times in last 6 years with no wins in tourney? Just saying I agree with everything you said - but not sure we want to be yelling that last point - unless we start making the tourney more frequently, then I think we can boast.
 
Trap, you're very hung up on the idea of "show your investment in your current coach as an example for future coaches" but in reality the AD will probably be different, the coach will have a very different resume and a host of other aspects will be different. I just don't buy that Richmond - after 17 years of commitment to Moon - has anything to prove about loyalty to a coach. As many have said, we commit to basketball and that is what matters. Coaches understand that other coaches get fired for results and/or transgressions, not because a university did not want to stick with them for 5+ years.

I understand the why of this contract for the reasons listed above, but also agree it was not really necessary at this exact point. Moon's agent remains levels above the Richmond AD.
 
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Well, The Bonnies made a graph of winning % for last 6 years of all D1 NCAA teams.
Loyola, Dayton, VCU, SBU on it as Top 50

If it was the last 3 seasons (with only D1 games, I think)...

Teams/Wins/Games/%
Loyola/ 72/96/.750
Dayton/67/90/.744
SLU/60/87/.690
SBU/58/85/.682
UR/62/91/.681
VCU/59/89/.663
Davidson/56/86/.651

I wonder how many would be Top 50?
 
So you're saying the administration paid no attention to the petition some of us signed??????????? How could that happen?
 
I agree - I think UR should provide some of the details of the contract, not all. I think items like total compensation each year and potential bonuses would be easy to disclose and I don't see a negative in doing so. I would like to know if there is any buyout clauses if fired - but I can understand not disclosing that piece.

I thought Mooney should have been fired after the two terrible losing seasons, but then when they stuck with him and COVID hit - it became difficult. And once he won the A10 tourney and won a game in the NCAA tourney - we HAD to extend him and I have no issue with it. For me personally - the program has the following goals.

1) Make the NCAA tourney
2) Win the A10 tourney
3) Win the A10 regular Season
4) Beat VCU

And this past season he made the NCAA tourney and won a game, won the A10 tourney, and while we were 1-2 vs VCU, he did beat them when it mattered the most - in the A10 tourney. So you have to reward someone when they make the NCAA AND win a game and WIN the A10 tourney - no only to reward him currently for reaching those goals, but also show your investment in the program for future coaches. I have no issue with this extension , think the length is just right and we will see what happens after next season.
Trap, personally, I never believed you wanted Mooney fired because every post you made about him being fired was a long explanation as to why we weren't going to fire him but rather figure out a way to extend him.

So have yourself a day, man. This extension was for you.

My 2 cents, we all knew this was coming. Mooney won the A-10, went to the NCAA's, won a game it the NCAA's. As I have contended the entire time, that is the main and primary performance measurement of his job, and he checked the box this year.

I would love to know the details of the contract but also honestly just don't care because it doesn't matter. It is pretty clear that barring some scandal (highly unlikely) or the program just falling off a cliff (also highly unlikely), that Mooney can write his own future here.

That won't stop me though from calling out failing from when they occur, nor should it stop anyone else. There has been very little accountability when it comes to Mooney and his 10 year drought and few measures that did started from and by members of this message board.

But for today, I'm not upset with the extension. Was it warranted, our 4000 days in the wilderness would cause any rational person to pause in that answer. Was it expected after our run in March, yes very much so.
 
Agree that Mooney "checked the box this year" and "there has been very little accountability." It would be helpful if there were specific goals spelled out and rewards for meeting them and penalities for not meeting them. Given the mindset of the administration I am not holding my breath that such information if it exists will be revealed.
 
Trap, personally, I never believed you wanted Mooney fired because every post you made about him being fired was a long explanation as to why we weren't going to fire him but rather figure out a way to extend him.

So have yourself a day, man. This extension was for you.

My 2 cents, we all knew this was coming. Mooney won the A-10, went to the NCAA's, won a game it the NCAA's. As I have contended the entire time, that is the main and primary performance measurement of his job, and he checked the box this year.

I would love to know the details of the contract but also honestly just don't care because it doesn't matter. It is pretty clear that barring some scandal (highly unlikely) or the program just falling off a cliff (also highly unlikely), that Mooney can write his own future here.

That won't stop me though from calling out failing from when they occur, nor should it stop anyone else. There has been very little accountability when it comes to Mooney and his 10 year drought and few measures that did started from and by members of this message board.

But for today, I'm not upset with the extension. Was it warranted, our 4000 days in the wilderness would cause any rational person to pause in that answer. Was it expected after our run in March, yes very much so.
I wanted them to fire Mooney to show they cared about athletics. But I just knew deep down, after speaking with several people on the inside over the years - some of who have left the University - this was not the case. So while my head said - after those 2 losing seasons, he should have been fired - I knew the University would never do it. For many reasons already explained on this board.

Now when COVID hit, I don't disagree with keeping him. At that time - it would have been hard to find a new coach, season's were influx and we were in the middle of a pandemic - so one thing we did need was a little consistency.

And once they won the A10 this year AND won a game in the NCAA - you have to extend him. In what position in any business do you not reward someone for meeting their goals. Sure - you can bring up the past, but you didn't fire him after those 10 years of no NCAA appearances (also didn't give him a raise or long extension) - so by not doing that - you can't bring it up when they do meet their goals.

Think of it this way. You run a company. Have a sales person. They miss their sales goals for 10 years straight, some years they come very close, other years not so much. BUT - you as the CEO (AD) don't fire them during that point. Then this past year - they hit their goal and go beyond. Your not going to give them anything???? Agreed - they don't deserve a huge bonus, or raise, or extension - but what message are you sending when they reach the goal that has been set and give no reward? SO I have no issue with the current extension. I think its just about right and I expect if we make the NCAA or even NIT next year - he will and SHOULD get another extension and raise.
 
I would disagree with the statement that it would be hard to find a coach during the pandemic. You can always find a coach. But he was coming off 24-7, hard to pivot from that.

If he keeps making the tournament then extend him as much as you like, that’s all I want.
If you looked around the college basketball landscape though - not many schools were letting go of coaches once the pandemic hit. Some were doing it for financial reasons (tough to justify paying a coach when you fire them and then hire a new one when you know the school is about to take a major hit and not sure if there will even be a season) - and I think some schools were in a similar position to us - how do you rate a season that gets cancelled due to a global pandemic? I don't fault the school for keeping him after that - like you said, we did have a good record - good enough for NCAA - we will never know. But I think once you keep him after that season and the pandemic really hit - you can't let him go after the shortened COVID season where we beat Kentucky. That season was more about surviving and just playing games than winning or losing. Games being cancelled. No fans. weekly testing. Quarantines, etc.

Could we find a coach - probably. But I think the pool would have been limited.
 
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